ali4534 By Gerardo Granados: A friend of mine just as many readers think that Ali is the Greatest and by consequence the number one of all times; I cannot do nothing else but to disagree. Not only I think that Ali isn’t the Greatest of all times but also I am certain he isn’t even the best heavyweight of all. The Muhammad Ali “I am the Greatest” rant is similar to Floyd Mayweather Jr “The Best Ever” nonsense.

Yes it is true that we cannot compare boxers from different eras and undoubtedly to talk about this issue won’t bring a consensus among boxing experts, the sweet science purist or the hard core fight fans and certainly it would be better to discuss it in a bar whilst drinking a couple of beers.

I guess it is valid to disagree on many things that are more important than this one so to not to be able to agree on whom is best between Louis and Ali shouldn’t be taken too seriously.

A brief look at the personal achievements of Louis and Ali is necessary because it would be too long to detail them.

Orthodox Joe Louis 6´2” height, 76” reach, average fight weight of 200 pounds. Debuted at the age of 20 in July 1934 and retired at the age of 37 on October 26 of 1951. Record of W66 (52)-L3-D0 and title fight record of W25 (21)-L2-D0.

Louis is one of the toughest sons of boxing who ever climbed into the ring, also is listed as one of the hardest punchers. His notable victories came against: Primo Carnera who outweighed him by 64 pounds by KO 6/15 with an attendance of 64,000 in 1935; Max Baer by KO 4/15; Jack Sharkey by KO 3/10; Jim Braddock KO 8/15; Max Schmelling by KO 1/15; Billy Conn by KO 13/15 and KO 8/15; John Henry Lewis by KO 1/15; Tami Mauriello by KO 1/15 with an attendance of 38,494 in 1946; twice Jersey Joe Walcott by SD 15/15 and KO 11/15.

Lost to Max Schmelling by KO12/15 in 1936 in The Ring Magazine Fight of the Year when he was 22 years old; after struggle due financial problems came back from a two year retirement for his last title bout and lost to the Cincinnati Cobra Ezzard Charles by UD 15/15 in 1950; and finally on his last fight in 1951 when he noticeably was not fit or prime to Rocky Marciano by KO 8/10 in a bout scheduled to 10 rounds.

The 1960 light heavyweight Olympic Gold medalist, Orthodox Muhammad Ali 6´3” height, 78” reach, average fight weight of 210 pounds. Debuted at the age of 18 in October 1960 and retired at the age of 39 in 1981. Record of W56 (37)-L5-D0, title fights record of W21 (14)-L4-D. I would describe Ali as a skilled counter puncher, with great hand speed, footwork and reflexes. His notable victories came against: beat an aging Archie Moore by TKO 4/12 in 1962; twice Sonny Liston the first time “the big ugly bear” (as Ali call Liston) retired due a shoulder injury in the 6th round and the second time was knocked out with a ghost punch in the 1th round; Bob Foster (huge height, reach and weight gap) by KO 8/12; officially beat twice Joe Frazier, on their second fight by UD 12/12 and on the third according to Ali he asked his gloves to be cut off before Frazier´s corner threw the towel in the 14 round against Joe wishes in the Thrilla in Manila. Beat twice Floyd Patterson once by TKO 12/15 in 1965 and by RTD 7/15 in 1972 when Patterson was past prime. After refusing to join the army due religious and political beliefs was inactive for 3 years due legal troubles since 1967, came back in 1970 won a couple of bouts then lost to Joe Frazier by UD15 in the “Fight of the Century” (the real one). Work himself back to contention and shocked the world when he knocked George Foreman out in 8 rounds back in 1974 in the Rumble in the Jungle; lost to and won the title back for an unprecedented third time in 1978 against Leon Spinks when he was past his prime.

When Ali was clearly past his prime and out of shape at an age of 38 being only the shadow of himself lost to Larry Holmes (the only time he was stopped RTD10/15) in October 1980 and a year later on his last professional bout lost by UD10 to Trevor Berbick in a fight that simply should not have been allowed or sanctioned by any boxing commission. I refuse to give much importance to his loses versus Holmes and Berbick because just as Louis versus Marciano it is evident Ali no longer was himself.

Both heavyweights fought at 15 rounds and they fought when referees would tolerate a big amount of punishment that these days won’t be allowed. For sure we are talking about two of the best heavies in history and to know who would have won can bring many theories and it doesn’t solely depend on their boxing styles to find out.

Outside the ring Joe Louis was a role model for the African – American community, the turmoil in the American society back in the 60´s and 70´s was strong and really important but cannot be compared to the 30´s economic crisis, the 40’s World War days, on the decade of 50’s the Cold War fear for Atomic Weapons was intense. Also thru those decades the racial segregation was a common practice nationwide, iidem: “Shortly after the start of the fight the Detroit Negro sent Kracken down for a count of nine with a left hook to the jaw. When Kracken gained his feet, Louis knocked him through the ropes and into the lap of Joe Triner, chairman of the Illinois Athletic commission. Kracken crawled back into the ring at the count of 14, but Referee Dave Miller stopped the bout.” Source: INS report (quoted from BOXREC internet site).
When Louis lost to Max Schmelling in 1936 at the Yankee Stadium, New York, USA; he didn’t just lost to a German citizen and the social political back ground of such defeat echoed in society in many ways. Two years later again at the Yankee Stadium Joe Louis avenged his defeat knocking Max Schmeling out in only 1 round just one year before the Second World War started and his victory wasn’t only against a man but could as well have been considered to the ideology of Nazi Germany. On 1942 The Brown Bomber volunteered to enlist as private on the United States Army.

It is not possible to deny that fame goes to Muhammad Ali because he is the most famous name for boxing fans around the world; and even the casual fans know his name but those same fans will hardly know who or what Joe Louis did inside and outside the ring. The oldest fight fans might recall how famous Louis once was and old 60´ and 70´s fans know how big Ali name was and still is.

I won’t deny that Muhammad Ali is a boxing icon and that he is part of the 60´s social movement but I do am critical about him. When Muhammad fought against Smoking Joe he did call Frazier terrible things and his attitude was beyond any excuse to promote a fight; if Ali was part of the social movement and a human rights activist then he knew very well that his behavior was wrong even more against a fellow African – American.

In 1973 Ali fought against Rudi Lubbers at the Bung Karno Stadium, Jakarta, Indonesia; when the nation was ruled by the corrupt dictator General Suharto. In 1974 fought against George Foreman at the Stade du 2 Mai in Kinshasa, Congo (Zaire); when the nation was ruled by military dictatorship of Mobutu Sese Seko. Also in 1975 fought against Joe Frazier at the Araneta Coliseum in Manila, Philippines; ruled by the corrupt Ferdinand Marcos.

I want to ask to the readers, if Ali was so serious about his religious and political beliefs to refuse to be enlisted to go to the Vietnam war then why did he accepted to fight in nations ruled by three dictators?

The Brown Bomber Joe Louis was a good boxer but I would describe him as a natural fighter, strong power puncher and a tremendously effective bruiser; one of his best punches was the left hook up. If we consider prime Ali before his license to box was revoked, then let’s try to understand how he was knocked down by an unknown Sonny Banks with a left hook, yes Ali end up winning by TKO 4/10 against a club fighter; but how could an average boxer managed to floor him?

One year later in 1963 later Ali was knocked down hard once more time with a left hook against Henry Cooper (first fight – 8 months before Ali won the title against Liston), of course Ali end up winning that fight too. But how come a club fighter and a decent boxer were able to knock him down but Louis would not be able to floor him and finish him off after the first knockdown?

After all Ali never was a defensive wizard, he was hit clean a lot; also took a big amount of punishment during his boxing career and you could hardly argue otherwise. If Frazier was able to hurt Ali with his big left I don’t see any reason why Louis would not be able to hurt him with both hands.

I know Louis got knocked down many times but he always got up and retaliate, we might agree that both lions had the ability to absorb punishment and to recuperate fast once hurt or wobbled.

If you take a look at Muhammad and Joe title fight records you will find a couple of unimpressive opponents but to me most of Louis 27 opponents had better quality than Ali´s 25.

The Ring Fight of the Year: 1935 Joe Louis KO4 Tommy Farr, 1936 Max Schmelling KO12 Joe Louis, 1937 Joe Louis W15 Tommy Farr, 1939 Joe Louis KO11 Bob Pastor II, 1941 Joe Louis KO13 Billy Conn I, 1963 Muhammad Ali W10 Doug Jones, 1964 Muhammad Ali KO7 Sonny Liston, 1971 Joe Frazier W15 Muhammad Ali, 1974 Muhammad Ali KO8 George Foreman, 1975 Muhammad Ali TKO14 Joe Frazier and 1978 Leon Spinks W15 Muhammad Ali.

The Ring Fighter of the Year: 1936 Joe Louis, 1938 Joe Louis, 1939 Joe Louis, 1941 Joe Louis, 1963 Muhammad Ali, 1972 Muhammad Ali, 1974 Muhammad Ali, 1975 Muhammad Ali and 1978 Muhammad Ali.

The Boxing Writers Association of America Fighter of the Year: 1941 Joe Louis, 1965 Muhammad Ali, 1974 Muhammad Ali and 1975 Muhammad Ali.

Joe Louis holds the record for the longest reign for a boxing Champion of 25 consecutive successful defenses in a span of 11 years 8 months and 8 days from 1937 to 1948.

For me it is clear Joe Louis is the all-time greatest heavyweight I can see him win if he had fought Ali, it would have been a battle of attrition in which the Brown Bomber would have worn him down keeping a steady pressure and stopping him in the original and genuine championship rounds. But what about you, who is the best heavyweight of all times Louis or Ali?