Thriller in Manila, Who do you believe?
March 25th, 2011
By Thomas David Drury: It is 35 years since the thriller in Manila and the misconception lingers that Muhammad Ali wanted to quit on his stool before the start of the 15th and final round against smokin Joe Frazier, only for Frazier’s trainer, Eddie Futch, to pull his battered warrior out of the fight.
I presume this quote was taken from Ali’s biographer Thomas Hauser in an article he wrote in the observer (2005). I prefer the version of long-serving sportswriter Hugh McLlvanney who was ringside in Manila, quoting Ali as saying “if id taken the punches he took in there, i’d have quit long before he did”. I believe in that quote Ali was speaking figuratively to express his admiration for Frazier’s courage.
In HBO’s documentary Thriller in Manilla (2009) it was inferred that Ali didn’t want to go out for the 15th round. Wali Muhammad (featured in documentary) is quoted as saying Ali asked for the gloves to be cut off. Yes, biographer Hauser said in the HBO documentary, Ali had confirmed this to him. Could this be right though? i wonder. Angelo Dundee Ali’s long time trainer had no doubt in the matter.
HBO after the documentary broadcast a special, to my surprise all that featured were not at the fight, Dundee featured in the special by phone from his home in Tampa Bay Florida, I quote “so how can they make a statement like that, Ali didn’t say a word in the corner after the 14th”. “I said you’ve got him baby you’ve got him and that was it”. If it (the supposed comment about cutting the gloves off) exists, fine, but it didn’t exist, it didn’t happen. Ali was ready to go out for the 15th and if Frazier hadn’t been pulled out, he would have been knocked out it was like target practice for Ali at this stage of the fight. I simply cant believe the great Ali whose big heart was acknowledged even by his critics would have bailed out (against his greatest rival).
Tags: 31 Responses to “Thriller in Manila, Who do you believe?”
Leave a Reply
please use above banner to link back to us!
Ali may have said ‘cut off the gloves” but Dundee was going to send him out there for round 15 regardless of what was said by Ali just like he did when Ali wanted to quit against Liston. What is a FACT is that Ali did collaspe in the ring within a minute of the fight being stopped. That in itself will forever lend to speculation that he may not have been able to finish the 15th round. He certainly could have been punched out after that 14 th round. What is also a fact is that Frazier against anyone anywhere at any time would never say cut off the gloves”.
ali never said he wanted his gloves cut. for thirty years no evidence of such a statement existed, and i would be very wary of facts coming out thirty years later. dundee was there and he stated emphatically that it never happened. ali is now in no condition to confirm or deny anything. looks to me like ali was looking forward and preparing for one final round. also ali was dancing in the 14th round, and i doubt he would have expended that energy if he believed he could only go one round. joe did nothing in round 14; he was helpless and getting pummeled. joe had no power left and he could not see. i suspect that if futch had not stopped the fight, ali would have come out to meet frazier, hit him with a few rights and the ref would have stopped it. actually many refs would have stopped it in the 14th. joe was not fighting back and just taking shots, and he was looking disoriented. the ref helped him find his corner.
Ali was a load mouth n!gger
@Mike, I stand by my comment. Ali was a fantastic athlete but he showed no respect to his opponents, especially his black American opponents. “Uncle Tom” this, “Gorilla” that. Its no wonder that these men still hate this self proclaimed “Greatest Of All Time”. I mean, what kind of guy describes himself that way, anyway?
@Gnome
Ali was a poor sport?
You have NO idea what you are talking about!
Man,some of you guys on here need to get in
the ring and feel whats its like to box instead of
shooting off your stupid mouths!
The old war hero is feeling is age,but still battling on against the dirty n!gg noggs.
“Cut off my gloves.” If it was said, I belive it was said in the same context that someone says, “I don’t want to go to work today” and then proceeds to go to work.
@truegit “what’s my name fool say it”
cassius clay was a rasicist liar and a fake that was easly brain washet
Ali vs frazier in 1975.. What a war! Most people don’t realize what it take to be in a war like that. True heroes both of them. Especially Frazier who was somewhat underrated in his time.
@DOC – Nailed it on the head. So true.
ali said he couldnt move anymore. ali was done. even if they went back out into the bout frazier was beatin that body up if it wasnt for his eye he would have ended that bout. both two of the best to ever do it. a statue of frazier should have been put up in philli instead of the fake rocky statue. its crazy philly doesnt have anythin put up in honor of frazier. ali in his prime was unstoppable. too bad lost most of his prime due to war protest.
Ali…the greatest human being in this f.cking world!!!
Lefttotheribs shut up man alii’s legacy will live on for hundreds of years, and you will rot away
Omg, a cant belive people think ali wouldnt be the greatest today lol tryna say klitchsko’s are the greatest heavyweights ever? Lol omg plz dnt comment if your gna say that,, and who cares bou ur opinions?? Ali has bin voted personality of the century!! And dint people say he wouldnt beat a prime foreman?? Well he KO’D the f..k out of him!!!
If you’ve never ever been to the P.I. or inside the 10K capacity Araneta Coliseum, Manila, jogging or just walking, then you would’nt know what dry heat can do to your body. Much more if you were boxing, weaving & bobbing, for the full 11 rounds in the Ali-Frazier fight. Frazier was the stronger fighter but beaten while boxing with only one eye. Ali could have died that day with heat exhaustion and Frazier could have lost his vision in one eye or more if Eddie Futch did not throw in the towel and stopped the fight. What I really want to see today is to have both this two great American heavyweights together and have Ali apologize to Frazier for his antics in Manila, calling the gorilla, which Frazier resent up to this day. Call it the “12 Round”, of the Thrilla in Manila, and the venue is in the Araneta Coliseum! The Filipino people and the world would love to see this on satellite TV.
That was a great fight indeed.Either the words “cut the gloves off” was utter or not after the 14th, it was just a show of respect that adverseries should do.
OKOK first Ali colapsed in the ring with 30 seconds of the anouncement that Fraziers corner was stopping it. So if someone was guna get koed in the 15th it would have been Ali. In reality the fight was a draw whare both men are stoped by tko.
@James Blond I see the points your making about Ali not being the greatest today but you have to allow for the fact that the sport constantly changes and evolves. Fred Perry would not be the world’s greatest Tennis player by todays standards, Pele would not be the world’s greatest soccer player and many boxing greats of yesteryear would struggle in the modern era but in my opinion Ali remains the greatest not only for what he acheived in his own era, for the way he revolutionised the sport and paved the way for many of today’s heavyweights but also for the courage and spirit he showed every time he fought. These are traits that remain essential in any area and in merit of them alone Ali was and always will be the greatest.
Trilla in Manila! Ali said he fight a Gorrila in Manila, Ali talk trush but he fight, not like Floyd talk to much trush but has no balls to fight!
Ali had skill and was a good boxer but his wacky racial views actually eclipse his talents as a boxer. For political reasons i.e. to facilitate racial integration and give Blacks a measure of pride in themselves Ali has been promoted to an idol of the nation while at the same time his racial fanaticism is kept hidden from view by a compliant MSM.
Whether Ali would be able to meet the standards of heavyweight boxing of today is uncertain. Ali would have a difficult fight with the likes of the Klitschko brothers but would be competitive with much of the rest in heavyweight boxing of this century. Ali was good but today he would not be the greatest this title now belongs appropriately to boxers from the East.
i am sure I saw an ali interview where he said he said he should quit
Frazier was a ass kisser and Ali told it like was!
Truegrit and left to the ribs,
Your dads fake
and why dnt u become heavyweights and fight todays haye or klitchko and well see if u knock em out!!
Watch the fight again Ali wernt clear with a win it was so close and Ali wanted out also and should Frazier of fought the last round would of won because Ali was out i thought it was wrong to pull Frazier out because you could tell Ali had nothing left and would of gone with a flick of a finger.
But its not about shoulds it about dids and it was a great fight.
But fighters back then wouldnt be in the top ten now as boring as the heavyweights are
It was Thrilla in Manila
Doc don’t forget tremor berbick. It was a disgrace he even fought him. I fear for holyfield now
docs right on the money .
both of alis fights aganst liston wher fixt that so called fantom punch couldent hurt a fly and so was the formen fight and the last two frazer fights and many more the truth is ali whoud get killd by boxers like tyson formen marciano etc and thats the truth
Frazier & Ali……..MEN.
What’s true is that Ali collapsed right after the fight was ended, so I’m sure it was chaos. its possible Ali thought the fight was over not knowing what round it was, or maybe he was just talking smack but its all after the fact.
The truth is that Fraizer’s people actually cared for him. They were both near dead and Joe’s people were willing to say enough is enough. Ali’s people were still only willing to send him out for not only round 15 but years more of abuse up until the Larry Holmes fight where eventhough Ali was on thyroid medication that slowed his reflexes to a crawl, they sent him in the ring to get slaughtered.