Pacquiao hasn’t fought a prime tough fast counter-puncher Since Márquez
November 24th, 2010
By Tom Graves: I rate Manny Pacquiao highly, so highly I consider him as one of the best pound for pound ever. ‘The Pacman’ has some truly great victories over top names, but recently I realized since his rematch with Juan Manuel Márquez in 2008, Pacquiao has indeed faced bigger opposition but those opponents have been slower punchers and boxers past their primes.
Starting with most recently, Antonio Margarito is a big tough relentless Mexican but most probably past his best and although he gave a good account of himself he is not considered fast or much of a counter puncher.
Joshua Clottey is one tough Ghanaian and I honestly cannot disrespect his boxing talent by any means but nothing stands out to make him extraordinary. He has average/moderate speed, good stamina and power with a solid chin but when it came to facing up to Pacquiao, he mostly stuck on the defensive using his brilliant defensive skills instead of mixing it up in there. Clottey has been known to counter punch and battle with a fair bit of pace but even if he did against Pacquiao I believe Filipino would of out-sped him by a long stretch.
Being a big fan of Miguel Cotto, I wish the fight against Pacquiao would have happened before his brutal TKO to Antonio Margarito (which I believe has something to do with the hand-wrap scandal), Cotto is tough and by no means slow, he has excellent timing and is just a generally good rounded fighter but he was past prime when the Filipino faced the Puerto-rican, although still dangerous and talented he gave Pacquiao no serious trouble.
Ricky Hatton could of been considered past his best when the two met in 2009, but we will never know for sure as the tough Brit didn’t make it to the third round bell and didn’t really get the chance to settle in and commit to his game plan. Hatton was fast, hard hitting and had the ability to counter punch but I feel those skills and the man himself had not been as good since the loss to Mayweather Jnr.
Oscar De La Hoya is one of the biggest names on Pacquiao’s resume but unfortunately he was way past his best, ‘The Golden Boy’ was weight drained as noticed by Pacquiao’s coach Freddie Roach. All though known to be fast, tough, skilled and could effectively counter punch, father time last Oscar that fight even before you put them in the ring.
I bet ‘The Golden Boy’ wishes he had the fight around 6 years earlier!
David Díaz was the next opponent Pacquiao faced after Márquez, he was talented and world class having beaten Jesus Chavez and Erik Morales in his career and at the time WBC Lightweight Champion but he gave little trouble to Pacquiao, he was brave through that bout but got sincerely outclassed until a nasty KO.
I believe although Diaz was a champ at Lightweight, this fight was just a tune up for moving up in weights and fighting the big names previously mentioned.
The point I am trying to make is it seems like since the hard battle with Márquez in 2008, Pacquiao hasn’t fought anyone with those characteristics that Márquez possessed such as power, hand speed, counter-punching, durability and the ability to box like a technician and also then go into the trenches & put up a ferocious fight.
These characteristics are deadly combined and the thing about Márquez is he has all these in him and I think you can all agree you haven’t seen Pacquiao in real danger and trouble throughout a 12 round fight since their last meeting. And of course the first fight was even closer ending in a draw which could of gone either way.
The men Pacquiao fought since then have been worthy opponents and I am not saying Pacquiao has been fighting nobody because those have been the top names out there which attracts the most business sense and they have beenGenuinely good fighters.
I just have a feeling that if Pacquiao fought a fast footed and fast fisted counter-puncher in their prime who can battle and box, he may not be victorious by KO’s, TKO’s and Unanimous Decisions like he has been in the last two years.
Depending on whether the big one; Mayweather V Pacquiao happens and Marquez’s gets a win against Michael Katsidis, defending his WBO and WBA Lightweight titles.
A possible Pacquiao V Márquez III, it isn’t for me to say if Márquez is now past his best but I guess we can judge in his next fight nor is it for me to say if it makes sense for Pacquiao to come back down to around Márquez’s weight to fight him.
But if ‘Money’ V ‘Pacman’ doesn’t happen for one reason or another why not a 3rd and final Pacquiao V Márquez.
We’ve had one draw, one win for Pacquiao and who really knows what the result would be if the 3rd fight happened.
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If Pacquiao fights Marquez or Mosley, forget it! Sorry Pacman, this time I’m not buying it! Those are wash up fighters that GBP is trying to sell for that company is exhausted of potential money maker.
look, it doesnt matter what was 4 years ago…trying to go back into the past to judge a fighter is silly…pacman was a one-handed straight ahead puncher…yes, they have trouble with counter punchers. but now he uses both hands equally well and punches from every imaginable angle, and doesnt back straight up like he used to. he is no longer just a puncher, he is a consumate boxer. and these big guys, like margy, would put marquez to sleep very quickly. cotto is a bigger and faster and stronger than marquez. why dont you let mayweather defend himself in the ring. all these guys slamming pacman to protect mayweather and yet mayweather doesnt even mind beating up his own family or stray security guards, hed just as quickly kick yoiur a**, whereas pacman would shake your hand and treat you like a friend. is it all just skin color, you’d rather a black man beat you up than an asian treat you well.
Katsidis will send Marquez to retirement. I wish Berto will win by knock out. He’s a good opponent against Pacquiao at welterweight if Mayweather continues to hide.
Very true and honest article
so can you tell me who these guy has to fight in order to get credit? come on guys come down to some common sense. cotto i believe he lost that fight only becouse after margarito fight nobody really see the only problem cotto had: balance !!!!!!! cotto got in to the ring with manny pacquiao lighter 15 pounds lighter then aver and he’s trainer at the moment (unesperienced) did not adjust miguel balance that was a messs. look at the fight with foreman( good chined good power but poor skills) miguel cotto balance was outstanding on that fight.margarito lost becouse antonio with out plaster was a 60 % lesser boxer . de la hoya was old and skenny,hatton was on street drugs, diaz was a tomato can like clottey. ,marquez will lose badly from manny if they fight now. mosley can beat pacquiao and mayweather can do the job now in 12 rounds but it will be a little tough for pretty face ( he like is face ）so he will wait for mosley tenderlize manny and than umiliate him late in 2011. these is boxing future presente and past.
That fight may happen but at 140 up…I don’t think that would be competitive because Marquez does not carry with him his speed as he moves up..At lightweight, he isn’t even that good. He is best when fighting at superfeather & featherweight division and I strongly believe he could have beaten or at least gave Floyd a hard time at this weight divisions…140 to 147 is Manny’s comfortable weight. therefore if the fight takes place at this division, Marquez will not see the light after the second round! Everybody knows it! It is just for the money that they are pushing for it!
Mexicans are just a punching bags for the Pacman. They all dream to have a crack on pacquiao, but none of them except Marquez that are suitable opponents for him. Even though Marquez is having trouble moving up weight, iit turns him into a slowpoke. pacquiao will absolutely dismantle him. Not a good idea for Marquez this time.
markuez 140
OK if all you Pacquiao fans, Freddie Roach, and Bob Arum think Pacquiao is a great fighter please make the fight between Pacquiao and Marquez. Since Pacquiao is great it should be no problem making this fight at 140 lbs. Pacquiao coming down to 140 and Marquez coming up to 140. But I already know Freddie want to make it a handicap for Pacquiao making Marquez come up to 147.
lets let marquez fight pacman and martinez fight mayweather
@de la zona norte
me either.
paul
yes pacquiao has improved but i rather want to see Marquez vs pacquiao that Mosley (is the other option), I think that Marquez has his number of pacman and I think that would be more interesting that his last fights that’s for sure
@de la zona norte
yes i agree with you but that was 2 years ago. Pacman has improved a lot better while jumping to another weight division..
lets all hope that mayweather-pacquiao fight will soon be realized, can’t wait for the result..if ever the trilogy will happen i guess it will be a one sided win for pacquiao..
You are still making a case for a JMM trilogy. Forget it. I know the GBP is also pushing for it as a PAC/JMM fight is their only ticket to another 1 million PPV with Pink Floyd still on vacation.
The last fight of JMM against Juan Diaz (rematch) did less than 200,000 PPV despite their first encounter being the fight of the year last year.
this writter is not a hater like the pacquiao fans say all the time people that see the facts of what happen around manny pacquiao, and to be honest i like the style of pacquiao and im not a hater, but the facts are speaking for himself, and this writter is right in his comments, pacquiao has a lot of trouble vs conterpunching and skilled fighters just like marquez and floyd mayweather
@Failapino Hostage Takers Suck
it really sucks now that you are revealing your self…you are a chinese dude no wonder why you are using that name..how i wish you were the one inside that bus. and get killed..rest in peace..
@ Failapino Hostage Takers Suck
Only a communist will post something like this about boxing….. “lets unite. american fighter, mexican fighter, chinese fighter, argentinian fighter. stop the pacman train.”
From, pretty boy to money. Now its money to sissy!
ROFL!
Whats next for Floyd? Either Pac or Martinez?
Hopefully he wont fight anyone from the street, eg an old lady or something, just to DUCK from Pac or Martinez.
ROFL
Ohh….Floyd..there’s just no place for you to hide, Pac is waiting, if you wanna go higher weight, Martinez is there too! Guess, what he did, went back to Quincy,the one that Mayweather’s bodyguard shot before, the one who did not finish putting Mayweather on jail…seems like Mayweather is helping him now just to avoid Pacquiao….way to go Floydie.
jujuhound says:
November 24, 2010 at 12:54 pm
I wonder how many fighters have all those qualities: knockout power, hand speed, granite chin, excellent footwork, horse-like stamina, a solid counterpuncher, a tactician but also a brawler, left and right-handed, currently in his prime, plus fights at any of the weight classes Manny fights in, plus is famous enough to make the fight a good, financially-rewarding fight.
None?
————————————
TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS!
@ Mexican
yes.Pacman is a fail to boxing. Im also a pacman hater, like all mexican. lets unite. american fighter, mexican fighter, chinese fighter, argentinian fighter. stop the pacman train.
I agree with the author, if Pac vs Floyd does not happen, Pac-MarquezIII would be a good match up than Pac-Mosley!
@ Failapino Hostage Takers Suck, Now that everything is even you have nothing to say in english.
我有一个小阴茎
@ Failapino Hostage Takers Suck, Remember Morales beat Pacquiao and according to many writer Pacquiao was given a gift in last fight with Marquez. Let even the play field let Pacquiao fight Marquez. Pacquiao come down to 140 and Marquez come up to 140. Who ever win is the best. Plain and simple.
@ mexican
yes i think they should stop allowing pacman to fight mexican bums.becoz he killed them all let him try argentinian fighter. by he way are u a mexican?
I like this article, about time somebody see manny for what he has done since fighting at 126 lbs. He beat the worst 135 champion Diaz, softened and over rated Hatton, Dehydrated De la Hoya, Dehydrated and softened Cotto, Punching bag Clottey and very softened Margarito. Please people demand for Pacquiao fight Martinez at 154, Pacquiao can come in at 144. Let see how great is Pacquiao?
Why is Pacquiao’s head much smaller in that picture. I’m a Pacquiao fan but I do think he’s on something i also believe Mayweather is on something. 5 years ago he looked like a skinny twig and having steroid goons body guard him to me means they’re giving him pointers on what to take.
Bob Arum, try to give Paquiao a fight to the best undefeated counter puncher in their division but fighter decline the fight, and said he his on vacation…. dont disturb him!!
If Pacquiao goes down to 135 maybe.
Or
If Marguez goes up to 145 maybe there will be a third match but I don’t think so.
No doubt people are just having this argument not to establish whether Pacquiao deserves the throne, best p4p fighter or not; its an argument establishing him being the greatest of all time. We aren’t comparing him with anybody in this era, not even with Mayweather, we’re comparing him among the greatest (Robinson, Leonard, Duran, etc). People just think it’s ludicrous to have the greatest of all time in this era. Well its impossible to prove anything now. Although there’s one criterion that’s always been the common denominator of them all, that’s never backing down on any challenge and so far Pacquiao hasn’t backed down on any worthy fighter.
One thing’s for sure. The Best Defensive and Tactical Boxer is no doubt, Floyd Mayweather. He’s avoided everything thrown at him and that’s what he’s doing now with Pacquiao. Avoiding it by not entering the ring. A good quality of a Wizard can disappear anytime. That’s Roger’s tactic BTW. lol.
Oooo, the Failapinos are pi$$ed!
Watch out!
Here comes a spear!
LET ME SEE…. MARQUEZ GOT KNOCKDOWN 4 TIMES IN 2 FIGHTS… HE CAN’T GO ABOVE 135, CAUSE HIS FRAME IS VERY SMALL AND FRAGILE… NOW, HE WANTS TO CHALLENGE MANNY WHO FOUGHT LAST A MAN WEIGHING 165 LBS, AND FORMER 3 TIMES WORLD CHAMPION.. DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION, BUT MARQUEZ MAYBE BRAIN DAMAGE IF HE THINKS HE CAN TAKE 500 POWER SHOTS TO THE HEAD WITHOUT GETTING SERIOUSLY HURT AT HIS AGE.. SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO WANTS THIS TO HAPPEN TO A GOOD MEXICAN FIGHTER. JUST LEAVE THIS ALONE..
Take the test and fight the best or there will be an asterisk beside each of your wins
FIGHT MAYWEATHER MANNY YOU PUNK
Hey Tom Graves, you’re too late for your excuses man, suck it up!
Damn that boy pac is ending fools in and out the ring. Dude’s leaving these guys with no career to speak of. Oscar, retired on a stool. Hatton, beat so bad he had to turn to coke. Margacheato is getting his FACE rebuilt. Now money, the man who won’t even dare get in the ring with pac, has let his jealousy and foolish pride rip his own life apart. The mans running around screaming, shouting for the world to hear, I’m the best, I’m the cash cow, I could really beat pac if I wanted too!!! Only no one’s listening anymore, people want him to prove what he’s saying, they won’t just take his word on this one. This isn’t cotto or margacheato he’s trying to duck. This is the p4p champion, the best fighter on earth, the man who sets the bar. You have to beat the man to be the man money. And slapping around your baby’s momma, running people off the road, attacking the fools working security just isn’t gonna cut it bro. Get ur life on track and step ur game up money, step ur game up.
are you boxing analyst,cotto,hatton,clottey are not in their prime why did you make excuse this fighter losses and saying not on their prime…do you think that marquez can beat easily these type of boxers.margarito,cotto,clottey while pacman demolished easily…marquez easily k.o.by pacman in 130 lbs.if marquez wants what he did to hatton in 140 lbs,marquez will get the lesson and keep his mouth shut.
Got an idea to all you boxing fans, what about Ugly boy Floyd have a tune-up fight with Sergio Martinez at 155 lbs. he did bragged and he said he’ll fight the winner of the Martinez-Williams fight? I’ll pay PPV to see this one. LOL.
He already said he’ll fight Marquez at 147 lbs. and with a guaranteed purse from Golden Boy Production and HBO. Enough said.
Coming from a pactard i mean, it has always been an issue with everyone else, and defended fiercely by the pactard online community that ODLH was prime stuff despite the weight, and cotto, and Margaro, and Mayweather next, also calling out Martinez below 150?.
Nice.
So now it is an issue to drain your opponents?
This is a new one.
I think the article has a point. In terms of boxing, the sport, Pacquiao’s greatest fights were at or below lightweight (Morales, Barrera, Marquez and so on). In terms of boxing, the business, his best have been against some of the fighters the author covered. Sometimes the two, the sport and the business, just don’t go togeather.
Chill out pactards, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it differs from yours, try to argue with your own arguments about the article itself and not by attacking the writers, i guess some day you will realize that they fail to care about your opinion and comments just like you like to disregard manners and education.
I agree that Floyd is a defensive genius I won’t argue that but Pac accurately throws over 40% of over a thousand punches he lets go during a fight. A handful of them is bound to land and if Shane rocking Floyd on their last fight is any indication there’s a good chance Floyd will go down because unlike Shane, Pac is relentless he will not stop. Also Floyd will eventually have to throw punches which will open him up to Pac’s powerful combinations.
It boils down to WEIGHT. PACMAN is the cash-cow now. No way he will fight weight-drained against Marquez.
@vinny, I’d be inclined to agree with you if the proposed third installment was 3 maybe even 2 years ago, but Pac is a different fighter now, not to take anything away from JMM he is a great fighter but in my opinion Pac would be too much for him to handle at this stage in their career.
problem is …
Counter puncher n pure boxer are usually not very good!
Show me a good pure boxer/counter puncher in welterweight
That is reaally good? at welterweight?
There is none(or maybe just one) but he dodges around!
Why does Mayweather dodges young & powerful welterweight?
Becos Clotley, Margarito and even Cotto will probably beat up Mayweather regardless of how much skills Mmayweather has.
Just imagine them as bigger, powerful and rougher version with better skill than Jose Luis Castillos at welterweight!
Maywetehr will be in trouble… His chin, body, brittle hand and his very good wrestling skill will be tested to the limit with this bigger guy.
Fact of a matter the lightweight Floyd is a better boxer than the welterweight floyd, He is younger n faster. He can run more n move around full 12 round as alight weight. Floyd small 8 inch brittle had did not grow any bigger when he became bigger.
I’m just 5 inch 3 n my fist is bigger than Floyd.
Look at Pacquaio … wile he is a small but he has big fist/hand and also has the biggest calf n head in welterweight. With amazing stamina n speed the bigger fighter can not bully him around.
Mayweather in Welterweight on the other hands only fight,
OLD/SLOW Welterweight(Oscar, Baldamir, Moslet) or
SMALL Welterweight(Hatton, Marquez, Zab Judah n Shamba)
The heavier the weight class you are the more power is needed. Look at the heavy weight most of them r boxer/puncher or pure brawler puncher Pure boxer is just not enough. Pure boxer means you either lack power, size or chin. to make up for it you do puer boxing.
You need power and bravery!
Anymore envious and jealous wrirter or non weriter ? about Pcquiao being great ! ? contact Bob Arum and tell him you like to fight Manny Pacquiao, you’ll never see daylight
whoes prime right now .
mayweather either.
this writer is another wishy wishy wannabu, say all hate you want but in the end the world again the world praises Pacquiao because of his unique talent inside and outside the all wishy wishy wannabu get lost !
If Manny vs Mayweather happens, IF, and Manny wins is everybody going to give him his props or say that Mayweather was past his prime? Having said that I would like to see Pacquiao vs Marquez III because they brought out the best in each other just like Frazier and Ali. They always brought the best out in each other and the battles were epic.
Great read.
finally someone not hating on manny.well said nissan 350
When someone’s on top everybody wants to knock them down. Specially when it comes to Manny it’s always the same story, either he’s never fought anyone on their prime, catch weights, tests, etc etc. Why can’t you all just give him his due respect? boxing was dead until he came along. He doesn’t pick his opponents he just fights whoever is put in front of him. It’s not his fault the “best” counter puncher is dodging him, and that’s the fight people want to see but really if Floyd doesn’t want to fight him what can he do? JMM Manny already beat him twice, he only wants another shot at Manny because of the payday.
I read the article but most importantly all the comments. and Im glad to see that people are finally starting to open their eyes. Manny looks like a great guy, I will give him that but he is far from the GREATEST FIGHTER of all time. I find it disrepectful and tasteless that he can so easily take that away From Ali. Come on guys. Have respect for the legend specially if you are a real fan of the sport. People have Posters of Ali not Pacquiao!!! We quote Ali, not Pacquiao “I’m so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark”, “I hated every minute of training, but I said, “Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion”, “A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life”. Like Jay-Z says, Where’s the love?? people are crazy to compare Manny against the all time great.
The problem is the current best counter puncher with the best defense is so afraid of Pacman.
Pacman have been waiting for Floyd since after the De la Hoya fight. All these current fights are just ladies in waiting till Floydie steps up.
MAYWEATHER IS THE ONLY FIGHTER TO CHALLENGE PACQUIAO AT 147, ID LOVE TO SEE THAT FIGHT. I THINK FLOYD WOULD WIN BUT BY NO MEANS EASILY. IF HE GAVE PACQUIAO ANY CHANCE I THINK PACQUIAO WOULD KNOCK HIM OUT.
Marquez vs Pacquiao right now would be a mismatch. If JMM got knocked down three times the first fight in the first round this time he’ll get knocked out in the first round. Pacquiao’s power too much for a lightweight to take. Betting odds probably 10 to 1.
I wonder how many fighters have all those qualities: knockout power, hand speed, granite chin, excellent footwork, horse-like stamina, a solid counterpuncher, a tactician but also a brawler, left and right-handed, currently in his prime, plus fights at any of the weight classes Manny fights in, plus is famous enough to make the fight a good, financially-rewarding fight.
None?
Yeah, I thought so too.
There’s only one person left to fight, and he’s too scared.
YEAH ITS TRUE, BUT ARUM IS THE ONE THAT PICKS
markuez 140 wats up pack man
So is it talent or matching him up with in house fighters who are desperate for a check? Willing to drain. Coming off a loss. Who was the last fighter Manny fought that had a winning streak? That means winning more than 2 fights in a row. Ill wait for your response. Glad to see you are not buying the hype.
another manny hater?maybe he hasnt fought a counter puncher of marquez’s quality since their fight but he has definately fought hatton,cotto,clottey n margarito at or near their primes.you sound like a mayweather lover as you lot are the only guys who slag manny off all the time!who has mayweather fought of quality since castillo?and who has he fought at welterweight worth talking about?baldomir and judah are laughable opponents!
True Very True