What is wrong with ‘running’?
March 2nd, 2010
By Sean Pollock: Boxing- the art of hitting your opponent and avoiding getting hit yourself. It’s a sport we all love which caters for people of all tastes and opinions. Some people like an in-fighter, some people like an out-fighter; whilst some people just like to see two athletes battle it out to establish who is the better man. Personally, I’m inclined towards classy out-fighters who use their speed, intelligence and reflexes to win a fight. For me, watching the Alis’ and Leonards’ of the sport tactically maneuvering their way to victory is a dazzling display of ringsmanship. However, all I seem to read on boxing blogs, articles and boards are peoples negative attitudes towards this style of fighting. People comment, “he will run all night”, “he’s scared, he will run and hide”… but the question I pose is, what is wrong with ‘running’?
Another fighter under the microscope for his style of fighting is Floyd Mayweather Jnr, for instance, if the super-fight against Manny Pacquiao was to go ahead, hypothetically, would Mayweather be criticized if he fought the contest by ‘running’ and making the fight ‘boring’ for spectators? I think he would. The scrutiny of the evasive style puts the fighter in a no win situation, if he wins the fight by fighting in an illusive manner then he will be criticized for his tactics. And this is exactly why I am confused, shouldn’t people be praising the boxing skills that the fighter used and appreciate that he has won the fight?
Everybody loves a tear-up of gladiatorial proportions, Hagler/Hearns for example and I do not intend on belittling Tyson-esque brawlers, but the sweet science of boxing lies with the skill and elegance of naturally skilled boxers. So I suppose I’m questioning whether boxers have a responsibility to deliver a spectacle to fans… Or does running and winning come top of a fighters conscience?
I hope this article leaves you with something to consider and discuss- Is it really an act of fear to run…or is it simply a display of advanced boxing skills which we should embrace and appreciate?
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@crottyruh
Thanks for that. I thought you were an american for some reason. Im from the UK.
So I suppose your cultural background changes the way your fighters fight, and maybe how your boxing fans have different views of styles and how fights should be faught.
Maybe you will never understand the “gulang” of evasive boxing, but your country can certainly produce some great warriors!
Sean P, apology accepted. I would like to say something more though about “sweet science” since you told me to come back in the discussion if I happen to have something to “proper” to say.
Well, where Pacquiao and me came from, we have a word called “gulang”, that is, to take advantage of your opponent in an unfair way. I guess in America that is called being “smart”. In boxing, when a boxer have the reach advantage and use that to hug his opponent as soon as he scores a jab, that is “gulang”. When he “ran” backward after a connection, that is also called “gulang”.
You see, boxing is played differently in our place and that’s why I said earlier I might never be able to understand why it is called sweet science. We better understand it if its called “mano-a-mano” or don’t stop ’til you drop.
@crottyruh
Well apologies to you then, I suppose I read your reply wrong like you might have misinterpreted me.
The word ‘tap’ irritated me, I thought you were getting at some sort of weakness in these boxers, which was pretty much what started me writing it in the first place.
Thanks for reading.
@Pete – A LOT of observers would agree that Dirrell WON that fight. Just as A LOT of observers felt Malinaggi beat Diaz, in the first fight. Dirrell caught Froch from every angle. Froch was punching air and being punched. Froch’s agression was not effective, in the least. He was just trying to brute his way to a win, and depending on the support of hometown judges–champion or not. You don’t have to rock an opponent or knock him down to be effective, you only have to hit him squarely…w/out being hit. So, I believe you are missing the point.
Sean P, that’s very unbecoming for a writer like you to respond to a poster like me. I don’t remember calling you “idiot” or anything to demean you. I may be wrong for not understanding your article and you could just say so. This what you and Floyd have in common: ARROGANCE. Your mouth is so quick to utter unnecessary words. Just like the mayweathers.
You write things in this site and welcome posts, expect some people not to agree with you. And be nice in responding.
there is a vast difference between running and a quality boxer displaying true agility to avoid being hit. perhaps the line has been made thinner in recent years with the decline in boxing’s popularity and subsequent lack of knowledge of the casual boxing fan.
as they say styles make fights, and sometimes it is boring to watch 2 sluggers because they end up cancelling eachother out and nothing happens. whereas 2 quality boxers will put on a real show no matter who they fight against.
one note i will make is that i cant believe my eyes here. people saying Tyson had no boxing skills???? name another heavyweight in ANY era who slipped punches to land on the inside as well, as quickly, or as effectively as Tyson. i guarantee there are none. the skill and accuracy with which prime Tyson landed punches is simply unreal.
there is nothing fun watching fo fighters avoid each other, they shouldnt be getting those huge purses if they dont fight!
Great article. If you read properly u can c that he doesnt call leonard and ali runners, just out fiters which is right nic. I agree that the science of boxing is un appriciated, if more people c this and stop bein so negative towards classy fighters then we wouldnt have morons postin on boards!
@nick
NO were does the article mention Ali or Leonard running, it states them as a mold of fighters who move and fight. Or was Ali a stand there brawler? Im sorry if you are a boxing genius, lets all hail Nick.
mr polloks you’ve writen bollox. you mention Ali and Leonard in an article about running, neither of those 2 greats was a runner, they both had high work rates and punch stats unlike andre dirrell who was a genuine runner against Froch because he was scared of being hit, which made for a very boring fight
In dirrels case it wasn’t a fight it was a boxing match and a terribly boring one.
@crottyruh
Yes. My vote is, you are an idiot. Read the article again.
This is not calling boxers ‘runners’ and saying they ‘tap’ punches as you put it. Just because a boxer is evasive doesnt mean he cannot punch. When you appriciate the ‘sweet science’ of boxing, come back and have a proper discussion.
———————
You are not ‘running’ to a decision, you are displaying boxing skills (footwork being one of them) in being able to make your opponent miss, and therefore giving you an opportunity to out-point them.
Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but you are being to quick to bad mouth out-fighters, you are doing exactly what this article is stressing is wrong with boxing fans.
It’s easy for people to talk about something they know nothing about. Floyd is a great boxer if not the best of all time, but people need to understand his style. Let me give you an example…..if I’m fighting you and you have a machine gun but myself only have a hand gun, I can garantee you I will not stay in front of you…..and I will make sure that i find a way to beat you or to shoot you without letting you machine gun me….Same thing goes for floyd….he doesn’t want to get hit so he does what he does not to get hit and still hits you….People who say that they don’t like Floyd…well they can watch the UFC and see if everybody stays in front of the opponent. Boxing is the smart man sport……People who are hating on Floyd because he fights for money, well they are poor anyway and haven’t found a way to make money yet so they want to act like it’s because they love boxing……Acting like PACROID is the savior of boxing…..floyd beats that man easily and I’m ready to put my money where my mouth is….You people just don’t get it….Floyd is a snake in the ring…he doesn’t hit hard but he hits with poison….12 rounds of poison.
It’s the MMA generation. They want any/every fight to have blood and guts and they want it in highlight-reel speed. And boxing, as we know, doesn’t always play out like that. So boxing and boxers [too] often get criticized for “being boring”. But that’s okay with me; let those who don’t fully understand the “sweet science” find their thrills elsewhere. I’ll stick to my favorite sport and continue to enjoy watching a skilled boxer dismantle a brawler.
Boxing is an entertainment sport. Noweadays majority of the people who watch boxing are not experts who gauge a fighter based on how technical he is. Most of them look at how exciting a fighter is and in which we have to say brawling gives a huge impact…
Ali was a mover and great boxer,NO runner there!Sugar Ray Leanard could be both. I respect the traits people show to become good fighters and great fighters but if one resorts to pot shotting and running to win decisions it’s not only frustrating but it’s also not worth watching for true fight fans!
Theres a difference between masterful boxing and running.
Mayweather is a master boxer (and bater) not a runner, its very clever stuff and there is nothing wrong with it, if people dont like it then go watch Valero or the new version of Knightrider (how bads that show?).
Dirrell is also a great boxer but we saw him running in the 2nd half of the Froch fight, 1st half was great boxing 2nd he wasnt really in control.
Theres boxing out of range of your opponants shots and theres just getting out of range or so close up neither boxer can do anything.
I couldnt agree more with the first post WOWZABEAN.
Those who are not entertained by Floyd cannot call them a true fight fan. How can you not rate a man who rarely drops below 40% landed punches and regularly above 50%. Not just with floyd but most boxers as soon as they have won their fight all of a sudden the beaten fighter was never a worthy challenger and with floyds style makes it seem even more of a mis match as he is rarely caught cleanly. The fact that mayweathers fights generates the most money suggest there are enough people that still want to see boxing in its purest form and/or a bunch of haters out their that speak with their heart but spend their monney (PPV) with their heads.
IMHO, the fact that people say Floyd’s style of boxing is boring, yet he is still one of the biggest draws in boxing impresses me all the more.
But then again I can watch a fighter give a boxing lesson to another fighter and enjoy it as much as watching a blood and guts war.
Either way I don’t think their is a man on this planet that wouldn’t fight like Floyd if they had his skills and were making the money he is making.
Also, I say don’t blame Floyd for not being more offensive minded like he use to be. Blame his opponents for not being good enough to get Floyd out of his comfort zone during the match. Trust me, if Floyd is in the ring with someone who has a chance of beating him, then you will see how quickly his style will change. Maybe Shane will be able to.
Great article; I’ve wondered the same thing which is why I’ve given up on these blogs. The idea of ‘running’ is a misnomer to discredit Mayweather in favor of Pacquiao recently. Clearly Manny is at his best with fighters who come forward/stand directly in front of him and trade.
Mayweather moves, pot-shots, scores points, wears opponents down. Add to that he’s a defensive wizard–Pac fans don’t like that; think it’s boring. Styles make fights! The greates trilogy of all-time, Ali-Frazier. Contrasting styles–Frazier, the brawler, coming forward, attacking; Ali, the boxer, moving, circling, jabs, keeping distance. The Sweet Science.
Sugar Ray Leonard
Alright…. we might as well run a little survey here. Choose between to kinds of boxing:
A – “Toe-to-toe” (exchanges of clean hard blows)
B – “Tap-run-tap-run-run-run” (running away from aggressor)
Would you like cast the first vote Mr. Sean P?
Its amazing to me when I hear people say Floyd “runs” in his fight, but they cant seem to be able to point to a fight, or a series of fights to substantiate or show a pattern of what they claim. As I read below, ODH did what was considered to be “running” in the last four rounds that he fought against Trinadad……..and ended up losing a fight that he clearly was able to dictate and control for the first eight rounds. If Floyd Mayweather was truly a “runner” then why has it not cost him in atleast one of his fights??? And besides that, anyone can see that “brawlers” although very exciting do not last very long in the sport, and their boxing careers always seem to end rather prematurely……..just consider one name…..Mike Tyson, who was arguably one of the most exciting “brawlers” of our time. when Tyson first came on the scene and steamrolled his opponents…….people LOVED him,and packed the house whenever he fought…….but his style of fighting was adapted to and look at how his career played out. The same can be said of Jeff Lacy, Eric Morales, David Tua, M.Barrera, A.Gotti, and Meldrick Taylor just to name a few. A recent fighter that I see that fits this “brawler” type tough guy role is Chris Arreola, whom is a very exciting fighter,and was looked upon as America’s next great heavyweight…..but he has already been exposed for not having a clue when he fights someone that utilizes their boxing skills as opposed to just trying to slug it out with them. And if Arreola does not change his style, he may experience limited success, but he will also be done as a fighter in a couple of years. One of the greatest boxers of all time said it best, ” HE WHO HITS AND RUNS TODAY, LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY”…….lololo…..you cant get any plainer than that, but nobody has ever accused Willie Pep of being a “runner”, and Pep was so “extreme” (as someone has foolishly posted in describing Floyd’s style), that supposedly Pep won a round of boxing by not throwing a single punch…….go figure.
What wrong with running that it dont belong in Boxing.Running is for the track not the ring,Boxing is a poor men sport is not where men go to run is where they make a stand.Floyd is got the best defence in the world and is not the one you see in the ring is the one out side.Fights a washup ARTURO,DIEGO WAS WEIGHT DRAIN,OSCAR WAS OLD,HATTON FOR GET IT,AND DONT FOR GET THE GREAT LITTLE MAN MARQUEZ,AND NOW AT 38 MOSLEY.Funny thing about boxing is that no matter how fast or how far you run it will catch you one day. And after all the running FLOYDs BUNNY MAYFEATHER has done I truly belive that Boxing has cought up but we will see MAY 1.
@Thomas-York Boxer
Thanks! I think that is exactly it, people dont appriciate the sweet science which is boxing anymore, it is good to see people toe-to-toe, but it should be appricated the skill of the moving boxer.
…On another note, I wasnt saying that Floyd is necessarily a boxer who runs all the time, but is a good example of someone who comes under heavy criticism for his use of boxing skills.
The great Ali said, “Float like a butterfly. Sting like a bee. Your hands can’t hit what your eyes can’t see.” And I think that really summerises what I was trying to say in this article!
Floyd is the best boxer if ever seen…he’s the best of my time I love to watch him work…if you can’t fight moving around won’t help in the ring or everyone would do it…you have to know what you’re doing to get in there any win 40 times against world class fighters…if it was that easy I would box but I know people sitting at home can be a little unrealistic so I just watch and admire from a far
mr sweetsci have you ever boxed? let me just say its not nice to stand there and let some 1 pummel you for 12 rounds
this is a brilliant article, best ivwe read in ages and manny articles on here have realy bugged me when people say boxers run..
the sweet science is all about scoring points and not letting your oponent hit you. i think allot of these so called critics need to go join a gym for a few weeks and see how they feel when some 1 punces you in the face. then they may apprechiate the art of moving and foot work
andre dirrell who won a bronze medal in track in field back in 2004 should know the anwer
Good aritcle.
I may never understand why boxing is called sweet science but for all its worth, the “sweetest science” I’ve seen by far is the knock out punch by Pacquio to Hatton. I like it when I watch it in slo-mo and see how the Pac’s body and left arm synchronizing from almost halfway below Hatton’s body to deliver that powerful upper cut.
Was it “hit-and-don’t get hit” approach? No. Was it “running”? definitely not. I’m not a blood thirsty fan but I don’t know many boxing fans who do not crave for an action-packed bout. Almost always, the most remembered bouts are those that ended with a KO and I’d rather see one than another ended with sometimes questionable decision because one fighter chose to “run” each and every round.
A muay thai instructor had told me, its impossible for you to not get hit but if you got hit once you must return with combination. He added “This is WAR we’re training for, you must bring down your opponent through knockout” “You must eat, sleep & live with it(muay thai)”
No wonder Manny’s work ethic is unbelievable, when is that guy gonna stop training and relax a bit?
Floyd has taken it to the extreme. His style is ‘not get hit, run, run some more and hit sometimes’. Outside the ring he hit and hit some more. Sugar Ray’s style is the superior style you may call ‘hit first and then not get hit’.
@ kray
Dirrell was in no way “robbed” against Froch. Mayweather and Haye played it very different to Dirrell so I think your missing the point. I seem to remember Mayweather putting Hatton and Marquez on their backsides and Haye rocking Valuev – neither fighter hugged or spoilt. Dirrell was ineffective for most of the fight, sure he had some good rounds but not many when you look at it. Dirrell did not fight inside he hugged, he did not rock or unsettle Froch in anyway. Haye dodged and moved then struck hard and clean – very different. I am sure Dirrell can do what those guys do but he needs to be more consistent. I had Froch winning by 2 rounds, Dirrell did not do enough to be world champion, he really didn’t.
Sean, what an interesting observation! Your article is pin-point on issues. This is why they say…’styles makes fights’.I have watched great fighters/boxers that read the game and adapt to what is good for them. Some, who I like to call fighters love toe to toe fighting and ever putting the pressure on. Some do it well, some do it even when they are being punished. There is no boxer-fighter who can win running without hitting the opponent…never, just like pressing forward or pressure, what ever you can call it, can win you a match without hitting your oponent..i am sure jugdes know the difference otherwise they should not be judges anyway. In history, you have great boxers-fighters that enganged in either style…and it is fine. Floyd should not be criticised, in my view because he is what I call a smart fighter. He tastes the waters and adapts accordingly. You can not call all his fights as running for sure. Floyd puts pressure and moves when it suits him, he wins because he does not fall prey to his opponents game plan….he always has his own. The great Ali would sometimes fight on the backheel, occassionally ‘hooking’ down the head with his left hand. It won him matches and he beat up stronger boxers than him. This is boxing, as long as it is clean on the rules, that is all that matters. My advice to Floyd is…let those fighters and boxers alike, who like to please the crowds even when it does not help them do that. Continue to be the ring master you are, you will most likely never lose a match until effects of aging catch up with you if you would still be fighting by then.
I think the style, which can allow you to compete with ANY type of fighter, is the hit-and-not get hit style. But, you still have to be able to take a good shot too; because no fighter, escapes being hit flush, at some point in his career. Some call this a “running” style. But, it makes sense to use the entire ring. Especially, when another fighter is bigger and stronger than you, or rushes in with his hands down.
Unlike some, I felt Andre Direll was robbed against Carl Froch. IMO, he made Froch look the “Mummy”, in there. He fought a bigger stronger man, by using speed and agility to overcome his disadvantages. But, he could’ve stayed in the pocket a little longer, at times, to influence the judges. However, I don’t think he’d get the nod, anyway.
Well, I wouldn’t mind Floyd to not be hit only if he uses his head movement and shoulders to avoid punches and stay toe-to-toe, but to run even if they are not on the ropes is not amusing.
Whoever coined the meaning of boxing as to-hit-and-not-be-hit is surely a floydie fan.
Boxing is about boxing your way out to victory.
I agree I love defense and counter punching. defense is a part of the game i wouldnt want the bulls to score and then get out of the way, not play defense, let the team score and hope the score more and win. thats just dumb. These guys are supposed to be able to hit a moving target and this guy just hardley gets hit. People just want a guy to prove how much of a man he is but i like mayweathers approach he wants to be the smarter guy and there is nothing wrong with that. People like that dont like boxing they like hitting nothing wrong with that just dont hate a guy for your own ignorance
If I was a prize fighter I wouldn’t be a face first fighter. Defensive fighters seem to have longer careers. If your trying to move up the ranks being a brawler is the toughest route. Using ring smarts and countering you will have a better chance at out pointing your opponent. Sweet pee, Ali, Floyd. If you can’t be entertained by a sound defensive fighter MMA might be better for you. All boxers have there own style. Its hard to see how people can’t understand that.
Let’s just change it to marathon then
Well said, well said Wowzabean, Rat-a-too, Mr. Sweetsci, & Ryan Dunn. After all, any boxing match without a KO or at least a knockdown seems to be always boring to the casual fans.
I agree the appreciation of the art (It is the Sweet Science) is…… under appreciated.
Leonard, a master technician, still chose to stand toe to toe with guys like Hagler & Duran (Duran the entire first fight) Regardless of the fact it was very risky. That’s ball$.
Is there any quesiton Ali had a chin? He fought brilliantly from the outside but he was not in fear of stepping in the danger zone with some of the most dangerous punchers of all time. That’s ball$.
In Floyd’s case I feel the running comments are referring to his choice of opposition over the last few years as much as his tactical style. Floyd is brilliant, he’s a virtuoso, period.
But people want to see Floyd tested. Is it his job to ‘entertain’ me? We’ll, it’s not his job to let somebody beat him in the head for my amusement.
However, I don’t feel it’s too much to ask of the self proclaimed P4P champion to take a dangerous fight once in a while especially considering he looses more money in his sofa cushions than I make in a year.
He is a great boxer, but I for one want to see him in a fight.
That would confirm the presence of ball$.
It works 4 floydy.. But people, specially boxing fan., want 2 c alot of action..
De La Hoya ran in the late rounds against Trinidad… and he lost.
“Running,” doesn’t look good to judges. It doesn’t show ring generalship. Floyd doesn’t run, however, he controls the flow of the fight by moving a lot, staying out of the “danger zone,” keeping fighters struggling to get inside, and keeping them at the ends of their punches.
While he does this, he keeps his defense tight, and is always watching like a hawk for his opportunities to trade. He is the definition of clean punches, effective aggressivenes, and ring generalship.
The problem is, when you’re great at all three, that doesn’t always add up to an entertaining style. And it sounds brutish, but ever since the gladiator days, the human animal in us wants to see boxers go at it in the ring.
Half the fun of a Mayweather fight is seeing if someone can figure out a way to hurt him. Not because he’s a villain (that’s only part of it), but because nobody has ever done it before. It’s like watching the underdog try to do the impossible.
We walk away bored but respectful every time the underdog fails. And Floyd gets his paycheck, and lives to fight another day.
…ryan
what is wrong with the running? let me answer this in a for of a question.
why is boxing in decline in recent years? conversely…why is MMA/UFC is gaining grounds from boxing?
Alis’ and Leonards’box but knew when to hold their ground and defend it,floyd use to hold his ground,that was in the days he had knock downs,now floyd will back peddle his loss as now he has no power in his punch,that the diffrent with pac he dig into ground to get power,so floyd has to comes up with as excuse.roids.
“Do boxers have a duty to provide fans with a spectacle?”
Why do we pay $50 to watch fights? Why do only a select few boxers make millions? OF COURSE it’s their duty to entertain. They get paid to play, millions btw. Where 50 bones, especially now a day to a majority of Americans isn’t exactly throw away money. The great boxers know how to box, hit and not be hit. The GOAT boxers know how to entertain.
That being said, boxers don’t run, they box. FMJ is one of the greatest defensive fighters. I’ve never seen FMJ run, I’ve seen him box, while stepping backwards. This might entertain many boxing fans, primarily those that box themselves, but it doesn’t entertain the overall public. Tyson created such a buzz because he’d explode, and he was in there to finish the job. You talk about boxing like it’s a “gentleman’s sport” but you forget when it started almost a century ago it was the most violent sport of our time. They didn’t use 10 oz gloves back then, and Rounds went to 15, kill or be killed. That’s why boxing has digressed and UFC is on top. All be it for the betterment of the boxers, but less entertainment.