Blood vs. Urine – The Truth about PEDs

Does it look like recent reports tend to validate our position on hGH blood testing issue? Politically correct does not mean it is scientifically sound. It is effective only as a deterrent to hGH use, but may not prove the presence of hGH. Therefore, Floyd Mayweather cannot demand its use as a proof Manny Pacquiao did not use hGH prior to a fight.

SecondsOut.com (March 27, 2010)
USA Boxing News
By Patrick C. English, Esq.

Drug Testing For HGH: Scientifically Valid or Just Politically Correct?

Dr. Caitlin has said flatly that the method of testing used by WADA “alone doesn’t work. It’s political. The whole thing is political.”

To Jaysmooth,

Your ridiculous comments on implying Manny has not faced ‘real fighters” is absolutely ludicrous and ridiculous. Every top boxing analyst and historians have made references on Manny’s accomplishment and justifiable. And on top of that, Boxing Writers American Association named Manny Pacquiao as Fighter of the Decade. Quite a feather on Manny’s cap. Not Floyd’s cap…Manny’s. If you implied Manny hasn’t fought real fighters, the why was Manny voted unanimously as fighter of the decade? Because as every boxing analyst said even great trainer legendary Emmanuel Steward, “I would have to call him an alltime great. I’m so impressed. and it is not just about this (Cotto fight) performance but since 2001, he has fought the best fighters from featherweight, all the way up to welterweight….and then performing at a top level.. ”

What is really so ludicrous about people accusing Manny of getting cold feet with his fight with Mayweather. Do you guys actually see how Manny fights compared to Floyd. Manny is not one bit scared of Floyd. Floyd runs. Manny comes charging. Manny was the one who was testing Cotto’s power. Floyd..well look at the Baldomir fight,where he had Baldomir in the palm of his hands. Floyd comes in the ring with a Gladiator outfit and gave one the most boring and unfulfilled fight ever. Unworthy of even donning a gladiator uniform. Gladiators go for the kill, in which case a KO in boxing. Did Floyd KO Baldomir? The Rock would have put Baldomir in the emergency hospital. Not only it was embarrassing, but a rip off for a PPV fight. The Rock would always deliver to the fans. Floyd should learn from The Rock and Manny Pacquiao. If Floyd entertains himself as a great entertainer…he should watch his own fight and try not to fall asleep.

To Carlos,

The Rock really agrees your point….every point!! It was very well articulated, better than The Rock could ever say. The $10 million per pound penalty was justifiable considering what Floyd did to the fight with JMM. The Rock has mention this before over and over, a year before JMM fought Floyd, he was fighting at super featherweight. While Floyd has already tinkered at light middleweight. The “call out” by JMM to Floyd was totally manufactured by Golden Boy. DLH is very close to JMM and advised JMM to call out Floyd on his comebacl sp Floyd is “forced” to take the fight instead of Mosley’s “call out”. If anyone really believes JMM called out Floyd on his own, they are fools!!! Complete fools!!! It was so apparent. NOw to the krucks, Floyd also IMO, faked a rib injury because he was too far from the agreed catch weight. From what I heard, he was still well over 150 at July. Because Floyd held all the cards and promising JMM a big payday, Floyd made JMM spend more own of his own money to train. JMM was put into a lousy position to spend more money on his training, an additional 2 months. JMM had to pay his trainer, staff, facility, and other expenses. That was a lousy underhanded move by Floyd who truly in The Rock’s belief faked a rib injury. NOw on weigh in, Floyd made another underhanded move, coming over 2 lbs over the catchweight limit. The Rock agrees, your assessment. If it was only 2lbs then Floyd should have done every thing he can to make weight, dehydrate, diet, run, hit the sauna, wear a bodysuit or even take a laxative. Do whatever he can to make the AGREED catchweight. If Floyd didn’t violate the catchweight, there would be no demand of an excess penalty of $10 million per pound from Top Rank. If Floyd was just an honorable person of integrity, which has a difficult time being, Floyd would have been treated fairly and not have been penalized heavily. Floyd brought it upon himself. Not Manny. Not Freddie, Not Top Rank, And certainly, NOT THE ROCK.

The UKAD spokeswoman explained that they did it by “target testing”, “investigative work” and
“target suspects being tested as many as 5 times, while others not being tested at all” implying confidentiality in their process of investigation.

USADA did the opposite. Tygart applied target testing in public. He made the Mayweather -Pacquiao negotiation process a forum to promote USADA objectives, and openly support
Mayweather’s, campaign to harass and malign Pacquiao. WADA’s Howman and Victor Conte also made the same insinuations that if Manny don’t accept the tests, he must be hiding something.

Who would not freak out in a situation where all conceivable performance enhancing drugs and methods are thrown into your face and you are asked to undergo stringent tests to prove you are not using any one of these and masking them to avoid detection? Manny can only say he don’t
even know what a steroid looks like and he do have some issues with blood tests close to a fight.

In the meantime, the Mayweathers and GBP took this opportunity to malign Pacquiao and the situation grew out of proportion and led to a lawsuit and cancellation of the fight. Tygart should be reminded of USADA’s role in the cancellation of the fight. Supporting the right of one athlete asking for a clean fight does not mean harassing the other party.

Pacquiao, being the target is put in a great disadvantage and Floyd claiming he receives the same tests means nothing at this point. It is Pacquiao who receives the brunt of the investigation and the maximum number of tests to detect all imaginable PEDs, including A-Side Meth.

WADA started blood testing for hGH since the 2000 Olympics, thru USADA. After spending $10M and 11 years, not a single hGH doper was caught. Two months after implementing this test method, UKAD catches a rugby player for hGH, the first ever worldwide

Why would the boxing commissions implement a blood test that has not been proven scientifically? MBL, NFL & NBA have stated their position way back. “Give us a proven test method, blood or preferrably urine and we implement it”. Why should the NSAC trust USADA’s proven incompetence compared to UKAD?

I suggest Manny ask UKAD to do the Olympic style drug testing. This should shut up all speculations and prevent anyone from running away from the fight.

@Ryan, well put.

@Carlos — Appreciate your comments. This could be argued either way. But, I think the only way to settle this matter would be for both fighters to take the test. This has become bigger than the both of them really. IMHO, it shows the need for ALL atheletes to prove they are clean. More importantly it reveals the negligence of these commissions, in doing their best to ensure a level playing field exists. If a less invasive tests comes along that is widely accepted, so be it. Until then athletes should be subjected to the best testing methods, which are available.
We can agree to disagree on this matter. I appreciate the healthy debate though.

Kray, I just think that the reason why Manny agreed to the e unreesticted urine and not the unrestricted blood testing was because one was invasive and the other was not. I don’t believe that the reason was because urine couldn’t detect what he was taken and neither could non random blood. And I belive that if Manny was presented with a non invasive form of testing that would detect any illegal substancce, the he would agree to as much non invasive testing that Floyd wanted without hesitation. I think Floyd knows this too. Just my opinion after weighing all the facts. He is giving his urine for testing. How can he be so sure that he is willing to risk his entire life, that someone can’t take his urine and put it through some new testing, nanotrap or whatever, that will expose him as a complete fraud. I just don’t see it. Just my opinion.

Kray, thanks for keeping it on an adult level. You know thee should be two versions of every blog. One for the adults and one for the juveniles. Anyway I will try to respond in kind.

1. I don’t know where you read that Pac’s camp said he was “afraid of needles”. I think his camp made some comments that got picked up in the media and those comments got interpreted and distorted to finally arrive at that quote. If his camp actually said those words that Pac was “afraid of needles” then I stand corrected but I would really appreciate if you could show me where that exact quote came from, because otherwise, I do not think that quote ever happened. What they may have said was that he does not like having his blood taken and that it weakens him. I don’t think he ever said it wekened him to the extent that it put him completely out of commission so he had to discontinue all training for 3 days afterwards. I am pretty sure the quote was that it weakened him. Neither you nor I should add anything more to it that what was actually said. As for the comparison to tattoos, I am no expert. I never had a tottoo done, but I know people who have. They tell me that getting a tattoo is nothing at all like having your blood taken. One is done with an electric tattoo gun making tiny pin pricks lasting aa fraction of a secon each, just breaking the skin to leave a dye to form the tattoo. A blood test, on the other hand, as we all know, if a hypodermic needle being inserted into your vein (if you are fortunate and they find your vein on the first try and do not leave your arm all black and blue with missed attempts) and remaining in your vein for one to 5 minutes, depending upon the number of vials of blood being taken, while it sucks your blood out into a tube. V E R Y different than getting a tattoo. Anyway, like I say I am no expert. That is just what I have heard and it makes sense to me.

I understand your comparison with other cheaters such as Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, etc, but I don’t agree that it is a fair comparison. Manny is already on top of the world. Adored by his countrymen, winner of fighter of the decade, unpredented world titles in 7 weight classes and on and on. He has more money than he can spend in 10 lifetimes. He IS undergoing blood testing, just not random or unlimited. Either you believe it is because it is invasive and either it weakens him for real or only in his head or he is superstitious, or whatever. Here is a guy who HAS TO follow the same routine before each fight. HAS TO stay in the exact same hotel room, for example. I think if Floyed demanded that he stay in a different room, he probably would have walked away from his guaranteed $25M based on just that alone. He is Fillipino. I am American. I have no idea what goes on inside his head. But in my humble opinion, and you can feel free to disagree with me, after weighing all the facts, I just think if there were a NON INVASIVE test that would detect all of this stuff, steroids, PEDS, HGH, whatever, I just don’t see Pac doing anything other than accepting these non invasive tests with absolutely no conditions. You know, according to othis article, this test is available now. Some people agree and others disagree. It is a shame that it not a mainstream test accepted by all. The future of drug testing in all sports, not just boxing, is NOT in passig laws mandating random blood tests as some here have said. The future is in developing a NON INVASIVE test or series of tests, that will make all invasive drug testing such as blood testing (some even have mentioned spinal tap testing! UGhhhh!!) obsolete. Then we can stop all of this nonsense and see the fight. If such a test were out there now, then we would find out once and for all which fighter was telling the truth. If Pac refused unconditional tests that were NON INVASIVE, I would be the first one to strongly say that he had something to hid and that he must be juicing. On the other hand, if Pac agreed to unconditional non invasive testing, like he did with urine, and if Floyd came up with some brand new condition to complcate the fight, then we would all know that he blood testing demands were just a ruse to harrass Pac and disrupt his training and were not about dope testing at all? Can we both agree on that??

As for the penalty, again, Floyd is a professional. He has a hiher boxing IQ than anyone. He should know better. And if JMM didn’t complain about the extra two pounds, his trainer certainly did. He blamed those two pounds on JMM’s loss. Personally I think it ridiculous since he would have lost to Floyd no matter what the weight. But the point is that Floyd made an agreement on a very important point, that of the weight, especially to a guy coming up from two weight classes below him, 3 weight classes if you count his previous fight before his last one before the Floyd fight. Yes I know they both agreed to the $300K penalty and Flody paid it so what’s the problem, right? But I am sure JMM would have preferred for Floyd to just come in at the agreed weight rather than the extra $600K. In this case, $10M is not only fair, but I think could have been doubled to $20M. For JMM, Floyd had two months to prepare for that fight. He knows what he is doing. I agree he is out of shape, not boxing for 2 years, etc. Too bad. You made a deal Floyd. And if you made miscalculation, tough. You tough it out. You run on the day of the weigh in. YOu starve yourself. YOu do what you have to to come in at the agreed weight. Just my point of view, Kray. You are entitled to disagree of course.

@lex

Also, once the “baseline” for an athlete’s blood profile is set, then you don’t need to do blood test to see if their hematocrit levels are high. That is a proven urine test, which would make it impossible to beat as long as every fight has unlimited, unannounced, random urine testing throughout their training and fight night. If their urine shows abnormal hematocrit levels at any point, the rules would apply. No?

I don’t have the facts, but I wouldn’t be surprised if hematocrit levels are actually part of the physicals for boxers they are required to take. Meaning if, at the time of the physical, they test for all PEDs, blood-doping, hGH, anabolic, etc., and the tests are negative, they should be able to use that hematocrit level as a “baseline”.

…ryan

chadwick- sorry i couldnt respond to you sooner…………and agree or disagree on the issues, you have my respect. I get soo sick of thse guys resorting to this childish and immature BS when someone disagrees with them. I just posted some facts about Xylocaine on another article on this site, and some guy responds by saying…..”shut the F*ck up”. And I am like…huh????? It is just stupid and ridiculous man…..but I did read your comments and…………all I can say is….fair enough.

Ryan;
I just can’t get over how factually inaccurate your article is. First an athlete has tested positive for hgh. Second, there is no urine tests for hgh that boxing or anyone else can buy. Third, blood testing has nothing to do with EPO really, but the other types of blood doping, which can produce the same results as EPO but on an even larger scale. These types can only be detected through blood. So, boxing can implement the most up-to-date urine testing available, and its basically the same as it is now. Since the urine test for EPO came out, athletes have gone back to other forms of blood doping that produce even greater results and cannot be detected in any urine tests. If there was a urine test for hgh, that boxing had access to (which there isn’t), that still wouldn’t have anything to do with the PEDs that would benefit boxers most!! How could you write an article on testing for PEDs in boxing and totally omit all discussion on the most important reason (blood doping) for blood testing in boxing???

@lex

You can also go to:

http colon slash slash ceresnano dot myshopify dot com

And get yourself a handy dandy NanoTrap kit.

You know: the one that totally doesn’t work? Yeah that’s the one. Wait’ll the BBB gets a hold of THESE guys!

…ryan

Preston, I apologize for the sarcasm. Fair enough. I asked to keep it on an adult level and then I go ahead and use sarcasm. That was wrong of me. Sorry. It was just to make a point that it seemed so ludicrous for JMM to be making demands for a Pac fight when he would probably bend over backwards just to even get a fight with Pac regardless of any conditions, like Mosley did with Floyd. AS far as all these other guys you mentioned, they are just jumping on the bandwagon. Teddy Atlas, you mean the same Teddy Atlas who actually went on national tv and tried to validate that mystery “email” that Pac supposedly sent to Floyd? I am sorry, sarcasm or not, but Teddy Atlas forever lost any credibility he ever had when he tried to sell us that garbage. I am trying not be sarcastic here but it is hard not to when it comes to Teddy Atlas.

As far as your comment about the penalty, I still don’t see waht the big deal is. Pac has to pay the same penalty to Mayweather. And why so much? Do you really think it would be any kind of deterrent to Mayweather if it was at $300K per pound. Why is everyone so upset about this penalty. I would have made it $50M per pound. No one is going to pay it. It is only a deterrent. It isn’t a Floyd penalty, it is a penalty for both fighers. IT is mutual. And it is a complete non issue so both fighters will come at weight and neither figher will pay it so what difference does it make how much it is, so long as it is large enough that both fighters will respect the weight limit.

As for Clottey having no penalty, I don’t know enough to give you an intelligent ansswer. I heard that there was a weightht penalyt provission, just for r lss s money but I am tallking outof my ass on that one because I don’t know what there contract says, only what I have heard on these postings from other people.

Chadwick- what is up with you guys, and why do you people always resort to these type of tactics?….lol, now you want to be sarcastic about JMM???….which actually proves my point in this being more about Pac than Floyd. You guys resort to the exact same tactics when people OTHER than Floyd Mayweather question why wouldnt Pac take the blood test like….P. Magnaggi…K. Cintron….M. Cotto……BJ Flores…..Teddy Atlas….S. Mosely. The tone goes from bashing Floyd to systematically bashing all of the aforementioned names…….again, this shows me that it is ALL about Pac.
Domino- with that sort of circular reasoning, it is very HARD to say ANYTHING that would give Floyd the benefit of a doubt, or say anything to support him on this particular issue……..”he used the test to avoid Pac……he had no choice but to demand the same of Mosely, or he looks like an ass”……I mean where does it end??? Can you guys at least be consistent here??? If pac demanded 10m from Floyd being that he came into a fight ONE time overweight…..what does that say about Pac who is fighting Clottey who has OFFICIALLY came into his welterweigths bouts overweight SEVERAL times, but does or says NOTHING about it????? Does that make Pac look like an ASS, for not assessing a penny in weight violations against Clottey????? or is Manny scared of Floyd????

Preston, it is Floyd who has painted himself into a corner. Of course all of his fights will require random blood testing. He now has no choice but to continue this charade. That is the positon he put himself in. Otherwise he would have looked like an ass. By the way, anybody hear anything about how that is going? They signed the contract weeks ago. Has either fighter actually been blood tested yet or has everyone simply forgotten about it now that Floyd made such a big deal of “requiring” it?

Jsmooth, be patient. These testing methods have shown results. That is why people are talking about them now. They are only not “out” yet because they haven’t gone thru all the steps and all the politicking to become a new standard for the industry. But, considering the stakes, they will get there. They already “work”. But, even “working” is not enough these days. They have to go thru a maze of red tape, but they will get there. And when they do, we can all stop this debate about blood testing. Blood testing, or any invasive testing for athletes, needs to be antiquated. My opinion is that Floyd is lying about all of this. This blood testing is a ruse to either harrass Pac and disrupt his training, OR to get out of fighting him because Pac is an unknown and Floyd only takes fights he is certain he will win HOWEVER, when they come out with a universally accepted NON INVASIVE form on testing that will detect anything illegal in your system, if you go to Pac with THAT test, or combination of tests, and he puts the slightest restriction on it, I will be the first one to jump on the bandwagon and say I was WRONG all this time and that he definitely has something to hide.

AYSMOOTH says:
February 25, 2010 at 3:43 am
@JesusJones

@jasmooth
“… I said, the media wouldn’t latch on to it like they would if It was Tiger, Jordan, Kobe, LBJ or David B. because they are media attractions. SO, if someone did have info they are not going to make money. That why i said he is a small fish when it comes to the media. He is not a house hold name. ”

dude aren’t you reading the news? the man is returning to jimmy kimmel next week because of the good reviews the show got after his guesting prior to the cotto bout. and you call him a small fish?

are you on drugs? maybe you’re the one who needs to get tested.

@ Jesus Jones

did you go back and read the initial post. You can’t just jump in when you want and try to catch up.

crottyruh says:
February 24, 2010 at 3:51 am
So there you go, folks.

I’d like to add something on this drug issue which is actually came from another poster and it’s worth mentioning again: Is it any wonder why up to this time NO ONE, ever came in the open with a slight hint of evidence and prove that indeed Manny is on drugs? Considering the length of time (about a year now) since this issue have been in discussion and the volume of individuals engaged in it, and also considering that in America everything is for sale, can you imagine how much such kind of information could be worth? Anyone with a solid proof (not an email) would just go to the media and fork a fortune, wouldn’t he?

so, i said the person who would have brought this forward wouldn’t have be compensated substantially. I also said that if it was MJ, TIGER, KOBE, LBJ or DAVID B the media would pay you alot of money for article or derogatory things on them. I also said this because Manny isn’t on these athletes level when it comes to Media Fame. Don’t get it twisted, he is a media attraction in the Boxing world but not in the Main Media. Look at what happen to Tiger Woods his story is still in the news just about everyday. Once manny was accused of using PEDs a week later, he it was dead to the Major Media outlets but the boxing forums are still running with it. These boxing magazines and newspapers are not close to time or usa today. So, he is a little Fish when it comes to the names i mentioned. You are confusing this post with another post on a total different topic.

@carlos

to your reasoning: The thing is everyone has come out and said blood is better than urine and urine and blood is the best way. Victor Conte, a man who has given many athletes HGH and other types of PEDs knows what he is talking about. He gave Shane his HGH and many other atheles these drugs which none of the tested positive for HGH. So, for him and ther other Scientist to say that, they must know what they aree talking about and the POs test that was revealed a few days ago backs up what they have been saying. People can sit here all day and say the nano-uranalysis test is the best way to detect HGH, but it not out yet. So, if its not out yet then how do you know it can detect HGH. There is no proof and if it was soo effective why is it still sitting in the labs today. In this era of PEDs why wouldn’t doctors work harder to get a urine test out on the market if they feel it is the best way to detect HGH. It doesn’t make since what you are saying.

@justthefacts–The point is that RANDOM and UNLIMITED blood and urine testing is the best way to catch a drug cheat, according to the experts. So, it is ironic, to say the least, that this is the one type of scenario (random and unlimited) that Pacman cannot submit to. Yet, other athletes, all over the world, are subjected to the same type of testing, for the Olympics, etc. Manny is a world class professional athlete, so if an amateur can do it, why can’t he? The “weakness” excuse does not fly, nor does the 24 day excuse. Reportedly, he took a blood test 20 or so days before the Clottey fight and was in top form at the gym, soon after. But, I thought he would lose days in training from being weak; because, of the blood test? That’s what they said. That tells me who did not want to fight who.
If a less invasive form of HGH and EPO testing comes along, and it becomes the approved standard of WADA, and Floyd continues to insist on blood, then I will raise an eyebrow–and question his motives. Until then, his request for RANDOM, UNLIMITED blood and urine testing is in line with the experts on this matter. It’s the NSAC whose procedures are antiquated.

@jaysmooth

you responded too late my friend. anyway, yes both fighters will be subjected to the same treatment… but between the two, it is Manny who is mentally disrupted because of his experience with Morales. I’m not making or supporting the “excuse” (according to you) as to why he lost but he SAID that and he have evidence. Why wouldn’t you CONSIDER that when you are BELIEVING what the Mayweathers are SAYING WITHOUT EVIDENCE?

In every game there are winners and losers, and somehow,someway there’s got to be REASON for losing and they should not be considered excuses. Diaz, DLH, Hatton and Cotto all lost to Manny and they said one thing: they were hit with punches they never saw. Would you consider it making an excuse?

I don’t really understand the hate you have in him, but do you have problem with people celebrating victory? do you really think that that concert will there had he lost? The answer of course is NO. But he is so SURE he will win right? Yes, that’s right but NOT because of drugs, but with pure DETERMINATION… something lil’ floyd lacks.

@Phoocquiao

Yes, you are right.. Read what you said, The”Player” Associations don’t want the testing..

And why do you thik they don’t want these test? Yes, because they don’t want to get caught. Just like Team Pac don’t want the testing either. I am just saying. I am pretty sure they will not hold out because of HGH Bloodtest, knowing that baseball already has a blackeye from other PEDs.

Kray, Manny never refused blood testing. He agreed to 3, including one immediately after the fight. He only refused random and unlimited and wanted no blood test earlier than 24 days out, the same time frame he did with the Hatton fight. As soon as some non invasive test becomes the universally accepted standard for detecting all illegal drugs, Floyd will no longer be interested in cleaning up all of boxing and will have to find another excuse to get out of facing Manny in the ring.

@Kray, well whether the urine testing is ready yet or not is subject to some debate. I am not informed enough to know the answer, but let me ask you this. IF there were a non invasive form of testing available right now, maybe urine, maybe a combination of urine, hair and saliva, that would detect everythign that blood would and more and even do it more accurately, would you then agree that there should be no more blood testing in professional sports, including boxing? To me this is just so obvious. Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong. Look at the family Floyd grew up in. Who do you think more likely to cheat between Floyd and Manny? Floyd is a proven con man. He cheated on the JMM fight because he know he could get away with it. (that is the reason for the $10 penalty by the way – to keep him honest). I am neither a Pac fan or a Floyd fan, but I look in amazement at how many people Floyd has fooled with his drug crusade “act”. Manny agreed to unlimited and random urine testing. And to 3 blood tests including one right after the fight. There aer only two possible reasons why he would not agree to the same conditions on blood testing as he did on urine testing.

Reason #1: He is taking a type of PED that can only be detected by blood testing and is undetectable in uring. Additionally it is the type of PED that he can flush out and comeup with a clean test if he knew in advance when the blood test was coming. Additionally it is the type of PED that he has some airtight plan will also not show up in the after the fight blood test. (that is quit a stretch) If you believe reason #1, consider the stakes. As a result of Floyd and his loyal followers, the eyes of the entire boxing world are now on Pac. They are watching him like a hawk. It is almost like a mob mentality but here it is. Everyone is now suspicious at least. If he WAS juicing and trying to tiptoe through this maze of testing, unlimited urine, limited blood, etc. etc., he sure as hell better know what his is doing because if he is caught, he just doesn’t lose the fight, he loses his entire life. He goes from hero to pariah in a fall from grace even OJ Simpson couldn’t match. He could never show his face in public again. It is unfathomable to me how he will continue to juice undcr these conditions and take that kind of a risk. What if someone shows up one day and wants to do a hair follicle test. I understand from these posts that you can detect your medical history of drugs more or less for the past YEAR! How could he refuse. It is completely non invasive. No. I just don’t see it. It makes no sense. Now let’s look at the 2nd reason why he will not agree to the random and unlimited blood testing.

Reason #2: the blood testing makes him weak. He really doesn’t like it and it bothers him so much that it will disrupt his training, which ultimately would deny him his right to train propertly and be at his absolute best, with no handicaps, for the biggest fight of his life. My only support for believing reason #2 is common sense. Do you really think, if they announced tomorrow, that the new urine and hair testing adn saliva has been finalized and approved and all of the agencies unanimously cheered this breakthrough in drug testing, and it even made the front page of the mainstream newspapers, and if they all thereafter announced that the new sure proof way to detect all peds and hgh and steroids in all sports including boxing, was a combination of urine hair and saliva, do you really think Pac would be setting limits on random and the amount of tests or cut off dates? No, of course he wouldn’t. Look at it this way. He already agreed to rndom and unlmited urine testing, right? And, according to you, the breakthrough in urine testing is just around the corner, but still not ready just yet, which is why you say there should be both blood and urine. But if this breakthrough in urine testing were announced tomorrow, Pac would be royally screwed!!! Here he has, juicing to his heart’s content, safe in the knowledge that today’s urine tests will never detect what he is taking, and voila! All of a sudden he reads that the NEW urine testing will detect what he is taking after all!! Oh my gosh!!! He just gave his urine a few days ago for this fight or some other fight. What is he going to do now???? Jump off a bridge or hang himself because he is about to be exposed and his entire life is about to go right down the tubes as soon as he is. Do you see my point. He agreed to the urine testing because it was non invasive and did not agree to the unlmited and random blood testing becasue it WAS invasive. Mayweahter doesnt’ mind this. Pac does. mayweather is exploiting this difference in conning the public. No way Pac would agree to unlimited urine testing if he were juicing. The stakes are too high if he is caught and he is totally dependent on urine testing not becoming advanced enough to catch him. It just defies logic

come on guys, test or no test lets just get the fight done already, and no bull shi8! Facts are Pacquiao has played it by boxing rules and passed it with flying colors. Those who said he cheats wont be in the hall of fame like Pacquiao will. All this blood testing crap are nothing but a witch hunt, which will only get in the way of an athletes training and disrupts them. If an athlete agrees to random urine test as well as blood test right after the fight, he shows that he has nothing to hide. Remember these people are boxers, no college education and surely not scientists. They can’t be smart enough to outsmart doctors when it comes to HGH etc.

This absurd line off thinking only satisfy Pac’s fans.

this blood test is a no win ,no way to find out, here another thing that they say you can do that legal, and can give you a advantage,what it is taking blood from yourself, months earlier ,store the blood then put the extra cups of blood back as your body has rebuild the blood. why? because you have 12 pints of blood in you. that 1gal 4 cups,the redblood cells carry oxygen, you get this advantage and its legal and undetectable,that why their is no test that cover cheating, you just have to take their word.

screw mayweather for asking absurd drug test and damn pacquiao for not taking the bull crap test.

Interesting that we now have the “truth” about random blood testing and how this “proves that Floyd Mayweather was ducking Pac………okaaaay. When are we going to hear the “truth” about Xylocaine???? Wait a minute….thats already been done….

US Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

Lenny Brown Sacramento, CA “Is Xylocaine approved by the FDA?”

I spoke today with a representative from the FDA via their Drug Information line. I asked them if Xylocaine was illegal or banned in this country. The representative said there are no bans on this drug. The representative also said that there would be no reason for individual states to make this drug illegal especially if its FDA approved. However, if this drug is administered by an I.V. or through injections then it must be done under the direct supervision of a licensed medical professional.

FDA.gov

World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)

One of the world’s leading authorities on anti-doping, WADA is the primary source for which drugs are banned in sports or athletic competitions worldwide. According to WADA, via GlobalDRO.com, “None of the ingredients in this brand (Xylocaine) are currently included on the WADA Prohibited List”. This means that Xylocaine is not banned by WADA.

WADA

US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)

Mandy Craig Sacramento, CA “Does the USADA ban Xylocaine?”

The USADA has a Drug Reference line where you can contact them via telephone and specifically ask them about any drug. When I called them yesterday, I spoke directly with their telephone doctor of the day. First, I must say that it was very informative being able to talk to a USADA doctor about this drug and the potential side effects. Anyhow, the doctor said that Xylocaine is legal for boxers to take via injection into the hands. He also said that individual state athletic commissions might have additional stipulations.

USADA.org

Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC)

In a conversation that I had with Keith Kizer, about the use of Xylocaine in the state of Nevada, Keith said that because “It is not a prohibited substance under WADA or USADA”; it’s not banned by the State Athletic Commission. However, Keith Kizer noted that the commission has added some stipulations to the use of Xylocaine.

“We don’t want fighters to use it on fight day. We make sure they have full physicals to check for this. They will be told to stop doing this from the weigh-in through the fight. Fighters must only take Tylenol or ice for any pain.”

NSAC

@ JAYSMOOTH

LOL!

Man, you make chop suey better than a china man. You are really good at deflecting and turning it around on the other poster.

What ever drama Pacquiao is in will have it’s interest but will mainly be in his home turf. US market will not give a crap because he’s not American or white. You put Mayweather in the same situation and the American rags will laugh at it.you might see in the back pages if your lucky. What is your point about releasing this information anywayz? It seems that you are implying that it was leaked intentionally to garner publicity. Then hoping to show up in American rag mags, lol! Man you are on some serious conspiracy theory when it come to Pacquiao.

Read my posting and comprehend. Don’t just breeze through it and disregard what the statement said. Your comeback was a double talk. Get it together.

@Ryan Dunn

I agree that it states MIRCERA did not gradually decline like the other two EPO’s did. I agree that MIRCERA traces found in blood testing probably stay in your body longer… But nowhere does it state it does for 42 days, only they tested that long. So you cannot cite that the article says it shows up in blood tests in 42 days… What I’m unsure of is how my argument is splitting hairs? How can you assume they mean it can be detected by blood testing longer, but I cant assume they mean the effects last longer? The article itself says it has a longer lasting effect, not that blood tests will detect it longer.. I could be wrong, but that article itself is not proof that scheduled tests will suffice. It states nowhere how many days a blood test can catch it… Only that the effects last for a long time. And the point isnt for more announced blood regimes, its for random ones… So I’m unsure how that’s relevant….

Why did Floyd asked for blood testing?

Floyd Mayweather recently stated that Pacquiao is an ordinary fighter. 3 yrs. ago he stated that Pacquiao is an extraordinary fighter. Inconsistent.

Watch his interview 3 yrs ago about PAC

you tube “Mayweather addressed Pacquiao 3 yrs ago”

@ lex_fugitive

The test is accurate my friend. It’s just not recognized by WADA or USADA right this minute.

Follicle and saliva testing are used to convict criminals and recognized in a court of law, but WADA doesn’t recognize it yet. Does that mean the convictions in court are invalid because the Anti-Doping Agency hasn’t gotten around to verifying whether the various player’s unions will go for the tests they propose?

I’m not sure why you’re fighting me on this one. It doesn’t incriminate or absolve any athlete what I’m telling you. It’s a hard fact which I’ve backed up tenfold. NanoTrap is proven to work to detect hGH in the human body, in the urine, with a successful window of 7-14 days. FACT.

A fighter could choose to demand NanoTrap as part of the urinalysis if they so choose. It is a loophole in the sport which gives abnormal negotiating power to the fighters. Until they fix it, and have one sanctioning body overseeing all of boxing, let’s use this loophole to actually get AHEAD of the Anti-Doping community by using newer, better, safer, more effective testing in fights.

Boxing could go from the ugly stepchildren of anti-doping to the poster children in two signatures. Think about it. If Mayweather/Pacquiao become the first professional sporting event to use a proven, if unapproved by USADA, technology, what an example THAT would set.

…ryan

Be real people. It’s not realistic for boxing to require random blood testing. Especially tests done within days of the fight.

It’s just as much a safety hazard to a fighter draining himself to make weight, to give blood, as it is to let a fighter fight a doped opponent.

Blood testing is dummy expensive. There are tons of fights put on by the commissions. They aren’t the Olympic committee, so I doubt they have the facilities to house handle the amount of samples.

Still waiting for another fighter to implement Floyd style blood testing for their fight. So far, only Floyd has cared. I wonder why…

Ryan;
A significant element of this process is that the anti-doping community needs to make sure that any detection method can withstand any … scientific and legal challenge.’”

the test exists, it’s ready to go…It’s just big corporation bureaucracy at work here
Yep, checking to make sure it withstands scientific challenge, a.ka. accuracy, is nothing but bureaucy!! Who needs to know if the test is accurate or not?? Lets do a test that may or may not be accurate!!

Ryan;
You cite that the urine test won’t be ready for years because they don’t want any scientific challenge to it!!! Do you even realize what that means?? That means they are waiting to make sure it is accurate!!! But you’re right, why should they make sure a test is accurate before implementing it right?? Its just bureaucracy preventing a test that may or may not be accurate!! You admit its not ready for years to make sure its accurate! Lets just do urine tests that may or may not be accurate!!! I give you kudos though Ryan, you have obviously proven you know more on testing for PEDs than the USADA, WADA, and Major League Baseball!! Really, that is amazing that you know all of this and the experts in charge of testing don’t!! You should really educate the agencies that test for PEDs!!!

Ryan;
You admit there is no urine test ready for HGH. You admit, that in direct contradiction to your article, you have no idea, if it will be ready any day now. Also, since you are obviously more knowledgable on testing for PEDs you should really correct the head of the USADA, WADA, Victor Conte, and now Major Leauge Baseball which has announced they are implementing blood testing for HGH in the minor leagues and are trying to get the players union to agree to allowing for it in the majors too. Are the head of the USADA, WADA, Victor Conte, and Major League Baseball all wrong, and you right???? Why is it all these experts disagree with you??? Can you name one, just one, expert that agrees with you??? There is no urine test for HGH that is ready and no one knows when or if one will be.

@Ryan Dunn

I really have much respect for you. I know you may be a Manny fan but i appreciate you taking a partisan approach on this matter. I applaude you willingness to provide facts about this issue. Even though you article tailored off at the end. You stayed down the middle by trying to prove why urine is better than blood. But my thing is the nano uranalysis is a great test that have been field to test athletes yet. There has been a blood test out since 2004 which was used to try to detect HGH. yes, over the past 5 years, there wasn’t a positive test but now that there has been a positive test..I has proven that blood is at this point more effective then urine.

@JesusJones

YOU PROVED MY POINT. LIKE I WAS SAYING, WHY WOULD SOMEONE COME OUT AND RELEASE INFO ON MANNY PACQUAIO WHEN THE WORLD DOESN’T REALLY CARE ABOUT PACQUIAO. YES HE HAS A LARGE FAN BASE BUT WHEN YOU COMPARE HIM TO JORDAN, TIGER AND DAVID, THEY ARE INTERNATIONAL SPORTS FIGURES. THE TABLOIDS WOULDN’T MAKE ALOT OF MONEY BY WRITING AN ARTICLE ON PACQUIAO BECAUSE HE IS NOT A MEDIA ATTRACTION. WHEN THE TIGER STORY CAME OUT IT WAS A HUGE STORY BC TIGER IS HUGE. DON’T GET IT TWISTED, MANNY IS A BIG ATTRACTION IN BOXING AND ASIA.

@ jaysmooth

Instead of comparing alcohol or pregnancy testing, let’s stick to PED testing. In many cases urine is in fact the BETTER if not the ONLY way to detect certain PEDs.

My article goes to certain lengths to let you know what blood is best used for. The problem is that one of the two things it’s used for is about to be replaced with a BETTER test done through URINE. And a single dose of the other test stays in your system for over a month, meaning you can do announced blood testing in boxing no issues.

Is there confusion about that? It has nothing to do with this fighter or that fighter, it has to do with getting the best tests in place.

…ryan

Ryan,
You need to check your facts better, buddy. A Rugby player has tested positive for HGH from a RANDOM blood test. He even admitted it when told of the results. Also, the urine test is not ready yet. And as Manny has proven, he reasons were nothing but lies. He doesn’t think giving blood less than 24 days before a fight will weaken him and giving blood didn’t even dent his training, let alone the three days off he insisted he needed after any blood test. Bottom line is the head of the USADA, WADA, and Victor Conte, three of the most, if not the three most, knowledgeable people on this issue, all insist random blood and urine tests are needed to determiine if an athlete is clean. But lets only look at some facts, and lie about others (HGH) and ignore Manny’s blatant lies!!! The experts agree that blood and urine is needed. Ryan, can pretend to be an expert, but he can’t name one, not one, real expert that agrees with him.

People are forgetting that during negotiations with the mediator. They had specialist and scientist to answer any of Floyd Jr. concerns. He didn’t care what they had to say. It’s all about what Floyd want’s. The pieces are all there for everyone to put together.

@Honestly

NanoTrap is NOT beign used right now, but it should be, it is ready to go. It’s in limbo somewhere while some trial lawyer double checks to make sure USADA can’t get sued for this reason or that, or it may be caught up in frivolous paper work before being instated. Or USADA may be dragging their feet on conducting their verifications on the laboratory’s findings, or a dozen other counter-productive reasons.

But if Floyd wanted to, he could instate NanoTrap on his next fight, since boxers are allowed to negotiate their own medical testing terms in spite of the commissions (for better of for worse, as we’ve seen). It means he can use any private agency and demand any of his opponents to use any of the agency’s he so chooses.

It means any athlete can put a clause in their contract that says: “Both fighters will be subjected to random, unlimited urinalysis, which will include hGH testing, steroid testing, EPO testing, and stimulant testing.”

Does that clear it up?

Let me find my MIRCERA source, but hope that answers half of your post.

…ryan

@Ryan Dunn

Can you please state your source thats says MIRCERA is detected by blood for 42 days? I have seen several sources that say blood samples were taken for up to 42 days post injection, but none that say it was actually detected for the full 42 days. I do not want to say you misquoted whatever you read, but would like to see where somewhere says MIRCERA can be detected for 42 days. I see you citing things about CERA in general, but not the drug MIRCERA specifically. From what I’ve seen they only now JUST found methods to detect MIRCERA (December of 2009) in the blood… Not urine..

Also if they just last year developed NanoTrap, do you believe that’s what the random urine tests are in boxing? You yourself say Mayweather’s camp should petition for boxing to use the newest methods, so I have to assume you believe they are not using NanoTrap. This makes the argument that urine tests are enough invalid, because they obviously are not using the newest methods of testing in boxing.

With both of the things mentioned above I cannot see how random blood testing is ineffective. Please show me…

B

Anyone for a piece on Endorsement?

How about a piece on branding and endorsement. It’s where the money is at outside the ring. Some of the jealousy stems from it. Becoming the face of boxing and taking it to another level.

Let me find another thread. Too many idiots in here comparing boxing to breathalizers and childrens games and all other kinds of nonsense. Let me get back to boxing.

@ BillyJ

That part is understood and it’s well understood in Manny’s camp as well. They said it during the negotiation that they will abide by the rule of the state commission if asked.

The reform should not revolve around one accused boxer. It was malicious and with an intent to destroy another mans reputation.

No one is saying no to these things.

No it is not a criminal justice system. I never saw it that way but it has become a sticking point in the court of public opinion. It was turned in to one when Floyd screamed fire in a crowded movie theater and locked everyone in. It’s a deliberate attempt to tarnish a mans name. It’s very transparent, unfortunately there’s still a lot of smoke in the air.

WOWO! A whopping 965.00 us. Bob arum probably winces every time he thinks of caughing that up. BTW, how much $ was supposed to be made by the fighters alone…80mil? 965.00 is out of the question. We’re talking bank breaking #s here.

The whole point of drug testing is not necessarily catch the bad guys but rather to use it as a deterrent. Most athletes who take these drugs do not know the science behind it (therefore neither does PBF or Pac . . . who does not even know what steroids are. If you are trying to deter a fighter from using PEDS why not announce more stringent testing which would give them a pause for thought from using these techniques. I think you are asking yourself the wrong question because I believe neither camp is an expert on PEDS Before or after any of this (because I really do not think manny is on anything and am a fan). the question you have to ask yourself is: “is there a reason (medical or otherwise) not to take the blood test 14 days before the fight?” I have another question for you what about blood doping . . . how is that detected?

To Moderator

I gave my honest opinion about the other writers with no disrespect. Simply stating the truth and the facts. I made criticism directed at other writers and it’s deleted. I was trying to make a point with Ryan Dunn. You deleted a third of what I posted.

You like me better when I’m bickering?

Very Classy

@mAc
That 10 million dollar overweight clause is outrages, bc he only came in 2 lbs over weight at an agreed 144lbs. If it would have been at 147 he would have made the weight. Since this fight would be a 147, if they fight. I am certain he wouldn’t have a problem with the weight.

@ Ryan Dunn

Floyd Jr fans and Manny haters keeps insisting that he’s dirty. Since they insist that the state commissions doping techniques are inadequate, then it’s safe to assume that everyone else in the boxing world are dirty specially Floyd Jr. Now just because he’s thrown accusation across the room does not mean he himself isn’t guilty. Not taking the test as everyone keeps insisting and making a statement that he himself will also be subjected to the same test does not make him any less guilty or not. All it does is deflect the attention from him.

At the end of the day, all Floyd Jr has done is scream ‘FIRE’ inside a movie theater then runs out and locks everyone in. In his mind, we’re all chumps.

Here is where I got my some of my facts regarding Mircera. There are other types of CERA EPO out there, but Mircera is the main one, all have the same effect on the body…

“Extra testing has become possible after a new blood test for CERA (Continuous Erythropoiesis Receptor Activator), the third generation form of EPO, was created and approved. Like the urine test… the test can detect tiny traces of the drug because the CERA molecule is very different to that of naturally produced EPO. Because CERA is also a slow release blood-boosting drug, it also has a longer half-life than EPO, meaning it can be detected in testing for much longer after consumption.”

(Cycling Weekly: “Tour de France CERA Blood Test Results Could Emerge on Friday” – Oct. 1, 2008)

If both Floyd and Manny were playing a game of one on one basketball, or chess, or marbles, or tic tac toe for that matter, which one of the two would be more likely to cheat to gain an advantage in this contest if he felt he could get away with it? Anyone see my point here?

I often go from one boxing site to another, and whenever PED is the issue between Pac and Floyd, I do make a point to suggest on my post the idea of REALLY making boxing clean by asking the right people to institute a new drug testing for ALL BOXER. I’m quite curious though, why are people only interested in drug testing Floyd and Pac? I actually would like to see how the proponents of “take the test Pac” will react to suggestion such as testing everybody.

My point is, the negotiation between them is dead because of the disagreement of the way the test will be conducted. They have separate fights now and there is ample time to create the RIGHT testing procedure by proper authority. If that will happen, drug testing as proposed by Floyd will no longer be a hindrance next time they talk, and we will see them fight……. finally.

@fighter, I didn’t say peds didn’t matter. Of course they matter. Of course fighters shoudl never be allowed to fight with peds in their system. I just said they did not turn you into superman. Your skin does not turn green. You do not become the incredile hulk. Case in point. DLH knoced out Vargas when he was on steroids. If VArgas had plaster of paris in his gloves, I think you would have soen a very different result. And I have beenwatching boxing since I was 12. I m a little older than 12 now. I think that if Mayweather was facing Matthew Hatton in the ring, he wouldn’t care if he was taking peds or not. IT woudl still be a blow out. Now if Matthew Hatton removed the padding in his gloves and put plaster of paris in hes hadnwraps, I don’t think even Vitalit Klitchko woudl want to fight him under those conditinso.

Tony. How long have you been watching boxing? You don’t need PED’s to kill someone in the ring. Neither do you need plaster. Why do you think the ref has the authority to stop the fight if a guy looks to be taking too much punishment? Do you think all of the fallen (INSIDE THE RING) had plaster in their gloves? What I was saying was that the sport itself is dangerous, AND PED’s can ABSOLUTELY give you an edge…why do you thik they test for it?! You’re seriously disallusioned.

@fighter, ped’s MAY make you better. (some argue it actually hinders you because you sacrifice speed for muscle) but they don’t make you invincible. It is not this life threatening “danger” you infer. I didn’t see Manny killing anyone in the ring if he was on peds all this time, especially not the fighters who were bigger than him. Certainly a bigger fighter such as Floyd, with all his considerable defensive skills, his life is not on the line if he fought Pac, steroids or no. Now if a fighter removed the padding from his gloves or put plaster of paris in his handwraps, THAT is the kind of cheating that could get someone killed or injured for life. Big difference.

As for the pount penalty, Manny is subject to the same penalty. So are you saying that the penalty should have been the same $300k per pound there was for Marquez? Didn’t you learn anything from that fight? Floyd has shown that if the penalty is too small to matter to him, that he will ignore it and cheat and come in at whatever weight he wants. If he is getting $40M for the fight, do you really think a penalty of $300K per pound would deter him from cheating? I would have made the penalty $20M per pound. Floyd is never going to actually pay it. Neither will Manny. Both fighters will come in at weight as they both agreed to do. This “penalty” only serves to ensure that. So what is the problem with it?

This article should stop all the baseless accusations about Manny being scared and ducking PBF. The finger should now be pointed at PBF for ruining negotiations and ducking Manny. In the end I think his fans may be to stubborn to realize that. Hopefully PBF’s camp reads this article and realizes that they don’t need random blood draws, just random urinalysis or other avenues such as hair follicle testing or saliva testing. Maybe then we will have the megafight between Manny vs May. Till then they both have some winning to do in their next fights if we want to see it happen.

Tony G. You don’t think that’s a double standard? Manny asks for something unprecidented, and so does Floyd. I honestly think it was petty for Floyd to bring this up…maybe he was doing the same thing Manny was when he and Freddy comlained about the gloves, then the blood tests;maybe he was making an excuse in case he lost. I don’t know. Personally, I think Floyd can beat Manny no matter what Manny’s on. But I’m not the one who has the legacy to risk, and I’m not the one who’s life is on the line. I think alot of people underestimatte the seriousness of this boxing thing. People risk serious injury or death. If it’s such an easy life, then those tough guys should lace em’ up and go pro…then we’ll see.

As far as Manny. He’s just as guilty of politics. He wanted Floyd to pay 10 million because he came in a whole 2LBs heavier against Marquez. And Marquez is a real class act for trying to blame his loss on those two pounds. Marquez got 650,000 for those two pounds, but Manny thinks he’s so great that he should get 9,250,000 dollars more than the guy who drawed against him. And to Floyd’s credit…at least he submitted to the rediculous request. Manny thinks that Floyd needs to submitt to rediculous crap, but he should not. All Manny’s doing is buying himself some time to fight a few more tomatoe cans, so he can stay atop his paper machet throne.

I think they both have clenched buttholes. They want to be called the best, but refuse to fight eachother over trivial nonsense. I know one guy who ain’t never scared. Sugar Shane Mosley. He’s got the tools to do it too. If justice is done, he will pull off the win against Floyd, then desamate Manny, and leave these two whining primmadonna’s behind.

@Fighter

Yes, you’re probably right about Mannys camp knowing most of what I said. But the way Manny floundered after the accusation was made leads me to believe that they aren’t all communicating. It made him look bad in the light of such lofty accusations.

I really wasn’t trying to be hard on Floyd. But do you remember this exchange…

1. Floyd asks that both fighters commit to USADA Olympic Style Anti-Doping regime.

2. Manny says “No way, José!”

3. Floyd fires back saying fine, we can use any private agency to do it, as long as it’s random.

4. Manny says, “I’ll give you every ounce of my urine from press day to fight night, but you’re only taking my blood three times.”

my point her is that… if Floyd truly wanted to fight, they could have I instituted a revised regime where full panels of blood are taken 60 days, 24 days before and immediately after the fight. A d the urinalysis would be unlimited, random, and include the ready-to-go NanoTrap testing.

Floyd wasn’t told that he had to stick to USADA rules for the urine.

Am I wrong? If both camps are smart enough to know how to cheat, why didn’t they opt for hGH testing in the urine? It’s proven more effective than blood anyway.

…ryan

@ JAYSMOOTH: “…and include this outrageous weight clause”

its not an outrageous demand since Money came Overweight on his fight with the smaller marquez.. its a simple reasonable demand.

in Money’s random Blood testing demand,,,
1. What is his basis for that demand?
2. To clean up the sport? Then why only now? (marquez drunk his own urine, but then Money was not concern about it?) Marquez maybe drinking other substances other than his urine.
3.Manny agreed to the Blood testing, its just the cutoff date.

@ ADE

Yeah, that 2am thing is a little off, it is just written to give example, an idea, of whatever the boxer maybe doing, they could be subjected to the test anytime anywhere because its random.

I think they just need to set limitations on the time (8am-5pm), frequency (1x/week) and overall total (5 tests).

I’m not against the blood testing, I believe neither of them is using Peds, so IT’S JUST TOTALLY UNNECESSARY.

@ Ryan Dunn;
I really doubt that Manny’s handlers do not know of what you just explained. I also feel that yoy were kind of being hard on Floyd for at least trying to expose something here. If Manny was’nt cheating, then great, I seriously doubt that one vial of blood will affect one’s performance…days before the event. Especially considering what fighters endure during sparring. But back to Manny’s handlers; the reason that more advanced drugs, that are harder to detect are engineered, is because people KNOW they want to cheat and not get caught. We’re all human. Why would Floyd not have the same ‘weakening’ reaction when he submitted to the blood draw as well? Everybody is making it seem as though Floyd is doing something unfair, or asking Manny, or other opponents to do something that HE’s not willing to do either.

Maybe Manny has just gotten complacent atop his fabricated throne, and is no longer hungry. Shane sure is. In fact, Shane actually admitted to (which, according to most is the only way to find out if one’s been doping), and STILL submitted to the tests, because he’s a real fighter, with no excuses to be made. Manny was looking for excuses b4 his Morales fight, just like he was w/ Floyd…as a buffer just in case he lost. If you remember, 1st it was the gloves, THEN it was the blood thing. Too many excuses, not enough action, which is why I refuse to watch any Manny Pacquiao event unlessanother worthy fighter is opposite him. I’m done with this. I love boxing, but I (like many) am a PPV possible sale. I am not inspired by Manny’s antics. Not enough to give him my $50.00.

ANd as for the $10M per pound penalty, if I was advising Pac I would have made it a $100M per pound. First Pac is subject to the same penalty if he comes in over. Secondly neigher fighter is ever going to pay it so it is a non issue. Both fighers will come in at weight so what difference does it make what the penalty is. Mayweather has already proven that he will cheat on the weight if the penalty is not large enough for it to matter to him, so the only way to make sure he didn’t do it again was to make the penalty large enough so that it DID matter to him. Now that it is, he is never going to pay it so why is everyone harping bout this being such an “outrageous” penalty. Just don’t cheat and no one has to pay it As for the unrelenting blood testing all throughout training, that is v e r y different and WILL bein imposed immediately over and over and over.

Pac agreed to all of Floyd’s demands, no matter how outrageous. Purse split, venue of fight, no catchweight (even though Pac’s had never fought at a full 147 in his entire career and Floyd had fought at jr middleweight in his fight before last, and even for Floyd to get first billing and have the fight called Mayweather Pac, instead of the other way around, even thoght they would be fighing for Pac’s championship. He finally drew the line with this harrassing unjustified blood testing. Thjs article finally exposes Floyd forthe charlatan that he is. Once you take the invasiveness out of blood testing, you watch and see if Floyd is still has any interest in cleaning up boxing. All he wanted was an invasive test to harrass Manny with. Can you honestly see Floyd giving interviews everywhere and pushing for this new technologtically advanced nanotrap urine analysis? Exactly. I rest my case.

@ADE

I wanted to clarify one thing you said about my article. I didn’t say hGH can be cycled from your body within 24-48 hours, I said the detection time in the blood is only that long. The reason more athletes, trainers and commissioners should be lobbying for NanoTrap is because scientists have tested and proven a 7-14 day detection window. If that isn’t proof enough for some, I would just point to the scientist method a d how rigorous it is. They tested it on humans and took urine samples to cone to their findings. Their “cling-on” nano particles actually found and stuck onto hGH in the system, which proves it’s effectiveness.

It should become the standard soon, but the more people who spread the word, the more awareness we raise, the better Agencies will become at finding cheaters in athletics. Isn’t that a good thing to lobby for?

…ryan

@ADE

Point well taken, singling out the 24 day cutoff is something else. And I only said “You’ll get caught if you’re on PED by the test window pacman camp proposed.” Misquoting me trows off your almost decent response.

Again its 3 test, don’t single out one test window just to try to prove a point.

@jaysmooth

my 8 year old daughter understood the article more than you and we’re not even americans hahaha

@NamCap

How do you know it weakens him? He made an excuse after a lost instead of manning up and taking the lost like a champion. So, now we are suppose to believe that the blood test made him weak because he said it. I am pretty sure there are alot of superstitions in boxing. I am pretty sure boxers may be afraid of flying but they know they are millions of dollars to be made on the other end of the flight. So, quit making excuses for him. He is a grown as man. I don’t like flying and it makes me weak, but guess what i got on a plane and flew to Iraq. (twice) at that. 18 long hours. I was nervous, throwing up, and all but did I make an excuse of it and try to back out no. My point is this if you are going to bring all your demands and request to the bargaining table, be willing to bargain as well..If you are going to request the gloves size, ring size, and include this outrangeous weight clause, be willing to accept request in return. Like all of you say he is the boxer of the year, of the decade, P4P champion. Well how about he be an Ambassabor to the game of boxing and push to help clean the sports from PED users. A true champion would take the lead on issues like these instead of hiding behind your trainer or Manager.

@Ryan Dunn

Where is the proof that it is effective. Where is the proof that it has caught someone who is using HGH? I read that article I want the proof of it be effective. It took the blood testing 5years to get a positive result. Yes, its a long time before a positive test but to say this Nano uranlysis is more effecient, you would think that is would have had a positive test being that it coming close to two years now.

There is no clear winner with this kind of argument,this problem is no big deal,if Floyd didnt brought this up, as good as he is,he’s like a rabbit that was cornered and faints demanding random blood test because he was awed how Pacquiao become extra ordinary at the age of 25 up,as a flawed fighter when he started,there is no roid users among fighters that are known who put their opponents in danger of injury,there is no amount of roids to take that will make you superman,bottom line is, Floyd is scared.

Science states what is verifiable and is a fact while ignorance is just plain speculation and has no grounds to stand on.

If your opponent tells you that if he does take this test it weakens him, still you insists even your basis is just a hunch or, rumour or speculation what does that tell me … you want to have an edge over him … plain and simple.

Who wants to go a fight less than 100 % even if you get paid gazillions of money when you have enough money already?

If there exist an alternative to other testing that are not as invasive to other … people who are genuinely concerned should lobby the authorized boxing body to immediately take this into consideration and possibly make changes to clean up the sport.

At the end of the day, manny doesnt want a RANDOM test…he wants a window to know when they gonna test for peds!!

no matter what you dumb mayweather fans say against this article the truth had been revealed and you guys can no longer prtotect your fraud, arrogant, and liar daddy anymore, he’s just making excuses and he’ll faint like a helpless cornered rabbit.

Well i think at this present time you have helped Mayweather’s argument for random drug testing. Since you have admitted that HGH can be out of your system in 24-48 hours im sure the only way to prevent someone from taking it is for them to know that at any given moment they could be tested randomly.
So although the nanotechnology may be there it is still not available for boxing because NSAC are dragging their feet so the only way that a boxer will get a fair fight is if he puts the random drug test stipulation in his contract until NSAC sort themselves and boxing out.
Im sure Pacquiao fans wont agree but most boxing fans should.

this is a good and informative article to the boxing fans and of course for the mayweather fans as well. but anyway, even if mayweather will be educated with these things, he wont give up with his demands for random blood testing. this is his way out to fight pacquiao…

No matter which way you look at it, Pac and his team wanted windows, and known time tables. If you recall, he first said he’d give blood during the week of press conference and after the fight, which would have been around Jan 10. to March 13.

as far as i know there have been fighters in the past who wer dirty such as mosley and jones that urine tests never picked up,and athletes in other sports aswell. so i think that speaks for itself.
but if what u say is true about the new types of testing then that should be introduced aswell if thats more effective, but u failed to mention the reason mayweather camp wanted random was probably becos it has such a short window to detect for hghs, so thats maybe y pacs team wouldnt want random and wanted announced, becos if u know the window its easy to cheat the test.think about it….if u know it takes max 48 hours to leave the system u can take stop takin it 2 days before the announced test.
also i think these boards and commisions would know a little bit more and have there reasons to wanting blood testing done for hghs than someone who jus read up on it recently.
plus i think at least gbp would have done there homework on this stuff and wouldnt have stuck by pbf if there was no point in blood testing.

Ryan,

Is there any way that you could let the Mayweathers, Team Pacquiao, the Promoters, and the Commission, Know about this stuff? Could you send this to them?

I think this would be very helpful in the negotiations, if and when they’ll talk again…

But i doubt Mayweather will listen, but at least when ALL (promoters and the commission) the people around him realize this, he will be forced to accept the TRUTH…

Since this is scientific and accurate as you said, maybe its better if you could also put your references when you send them to them.

Thanks,
mAc

All you MANNY HATERS: Don’t forget that both fighters must take BLOOD & URINE tests immediately after the fight. So, if Manny does take anything, he will be found !

jaysmooth, kray,

Dude he’s not saying blood tests don’t work. I seriously don’t know what you guys are reading, or if you know how to read. He’s saying blood tests are sufficient enough WITHOUT RANDOM TESTING. God you guys really stretch the word intelligence. There’s no need for another article, he said that it stays long enough in you system to be caught w/in a 40 day time frame. Not all of it passes through your liver because the molecules are too big, did you even see that part?

He’s merely stating there are alternatives to blood tests, i.e. nano-trapping in urine samples, which in no way is economically feasible at the present time. You guys are posting an argument that’s not there RETARDS!

All you guys that criticize him should be glad that boxing even has been mentioned in the recent years. Anyway…many fprget that this blood test was to be done randomly and frequently. What I’m confused about is why they keep saying “It’s only a teaspoon of blood”. Hah, it’s 1 to several vials depending how many tests. And yes, the affect of a blood tests do vary. Some may get tired and some may get weak. Just ask nurses and other health professionals.

@Ryann Dunn – I’m sure being the objective writer that you are, you are going to either write a part 2 of this article, or simply retract some of your invalid statements. You, probably, already know by now…they have, successfully, caught the first professional athlete with a BLOOD (not urine, hair, or saliva) test for HGH. However, I assume you did not know this before you published this article.

Until urine and other less invasive methods are proven to be effective, guess which method will be adopted first? BLOOD testing.
Both the MLB and the NFL have taken an interest. Of couse Boxing will take it’s sweet time. But, this appears to be where things are headed.

Your article was good, but, it left the most important part out. So, I guess part 2 will be titled “The Truth about Blood Testing”.

@jaysmooth

Jay, I think we’re drifting away. But then again I would like to ask you this question: Are you still convinced that Pacquiao is on drugs?

@Gunther

So, in American Dollars Tiger is worth close to 1 billion dollars. Michael Jordan is worth close to $500 million dollars maybe more. The $40 million Manny Made lastyear, Jordan probably blew that much in a Casino or on a Golf course betting or something. Tiger Woods gives around 10 million dollars a years to different foundations thats 1/4 of what Manny made all years. So, in the Sporting Industry over all Manny is a little fish.

@ Wowzabean

Floyd fans are a bit slow and I don’t mean this as a disrespect. It’s just that you can draw a map for these guys and they still get lost. Comprehension is not their best trait. Or they just completely block things off, ‘selective reading’ if there’s a such thing, lol!

@jaysmooth

I hope you know that Manny Paquiao is ranked by Forbes as 6th among highest paid athlete in the world – amongst the great athletes you’ve just mentioned. Having said that, I can’t agree with you to consider him as a “little fish”. And so, if I’m someone who knows Manny is doing drugs, the idea of selling that information is not really far fetched, let alone blackmail him.

But I do agree with you that for now, we could just wait for the two of them to finish their assignments and ultimately fight with each other. That is after all what we’d like to see.

Nice article.

@Jaysmooth,

Little fish my as! Better get your calculator and compute the earnings of Pacman and Mayweather per minute of the fight.
Okay Ill do it for you idiot:
US$40,000,000 /36 mins = US$1,111,111.112 per minute

Now who is the little fish here. Even Tiger or MJ doesnt get paid that much.

@xr says

Yes, he agreed to have 3 blood test on specific dates..But he isn’ willing to have random blood test. The difference is, if i know when i am going to be test, i can get clean if i don’t know i will be less likely to use bc i don’t want to get caught. Random doesn’t mean everyday. For all we know is the testers may only come twice but with random you don’t know. They may not even come at all, Its just could be used keep you honest.

@crottyruh

I don’t know if someone would pay you alot of money for something like that. IF you are talking about information on Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan maybe you could get alot of money. We are talking about an athlete who makes est. $40 million compared to TIGER and MJ making over $200-$300 million or more a year. Manny and FLoyd are little fish in the sporting industry. Only boxing fans are worried about this issue not the national media. You don’t see this on Fox or CNN everyday like you saw the Tiger Wood saga. So, no your not going to see it bc its not really worth it except to us boxing fans. Another reason you didn’t have someone come out is because no one had ever tested positive for HGH bc This is what Manny is being accused of using not just some generic steriods. But wit what happen yesterday, we may just see some people come out but give it some time and lets see what happen. I also want to say, lets see how Manny and Floyd look in the next fights. Let see if he see different fighters in the rings.

Great work Ryan Dunn!

Thanks for a very informative read.

FYI its 3 blood test offer from pacman and an unlimited urine test. The 3 blood test offer was within the window this article spoke of.

Get off the unlimited random blood testing Maywheather nut cracks. Pacman isn’t willing to be subjected to a blood test my as.

@kray

Its about time a level headed person make a post. that is what i have been saying. Blood test found the first HGH user not a simple urine test. Urine alone is not effective when testing for HGH. Like he states google it and quit reading other peoples post and taking it as fact.

Truth is creeping out now! regular boxing fan who are logically minded would think that Mayweather’s demands are totally ridiculous because of allegations that never proven to be truth!

The only reason that he wont fight Pacquiao is I believe that he is not ready to face a real fighter that put harm to his career, he is careful, very wise and absolutely untouchable in the ring to which boxing fan would not qualify as an exciting fighter. “NO ACTION”.

He said it himself that he can’t take beating, he won’t allow himself to be cut thats why he is avoiding Pacquiao !

If he wants to fight Pacquiao the sky is the limit, Pacquiao will be waiting for him guaranteed!

As Haiku mentioned in an earlier post. According to the latest news on this topic, the first athlete caught using HGH (with a test), was by a BLOOD test. This is the FIRST, meaning urine has not been proven to be effective, yet. Urine is where they want to go; because, it’s not invasive–understandable. But, the success of the blood test has perked the ears of both the MLB and NFL. However, it looks as if Minor League Baseball may try to the implement it first. If they are successful, other pro sports are bound to follow. Although, the adoption will, probably, be very slow. So, at least for now, a combination of blood and urine tests for PEDs appear to provide the most conclusive results.

For more info Google it…

That’s a refreshing article. Waaaaaay better than David Lahr’s lol. Thanks for the information, that really cleared a lot of doubts.

@ Jaysmooth

I likes, I really likes. Now we’re ‘talkin’.

if you mayweather think you are a great fighter than pacquiao, and pacquiao only good b’coz of roid and epo, then you can take also, and don’t ask ramdom blood test BE A MAN ENOUGH STANDING INFRONT “PACMAN” IN THE RING and that’s clear that you are a COWARD

There should be a sport event where everyone is allowed to use
all the substances they want…super humans vs. super humans, monsters vs. monsters…that would be an interesting thing to watch……..

Haku,

I read that article too, and I don’t understand why the USADA and WADA are gloating after their FIRST positive test. The HGH blood test has been used since 2004, and they just now have the first EVER positive test? 8,500+ athletes have been tested but now it’s ‘proof positive’ that the test is reliable? That’s the worst joke I’ve heard in a while.

Ceres Nanosciences in conjunction with George Mason University (being funded by the USADA ironically enough) have developed a HGH urine test that can detect the substance in athletes for up to 2 weeks, so this will be a non issue in due time.

Rugby player Terry Newton admitted taking the substance in a statement released by his attorneys on Friday. The United Kingdom Anti-Doping authority announced a two-year ban on Monday after Newton was fired by his club, Wakefield.

“It’s the first time and very significant,” WADA director general David Howman said. “It shows the people who say that HGH cannot be detected that it can. The sports people who said it can’t be detected are fooling themselves.”

HGH is banned in the major North American sports leagues, most notably by baseball since 2005. But amid the lack of an effective test, there has not been testing for the substance.

Travis Tygart, the chief executive of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, said the British finding blasts a hole in that thinking, according to the New York Daily News.

“All of us who have helped develop a test wouldn’t put it in place if it wasn’t forensically sound and reliable,” Tygart said, according to the Daily News. “Particularly in [Newton's] case, it’s proof positive the test works.”

UK Anti-Doping chief executive Andy Parkinson said it was a landmark case.

“It is the world-first analytical positive for HGH, a substance that has previously gone undetected because it leaves the system fairly quickly after administration,” Parkinson said.

Parkinson said this case, like the tests for the banned blood-boosting hormone EPO, sends out a message that scientists are catching up with cheats.

“There has been a feeling that you can take growth hormone with impunity, but this shows this is no longer the case,” Parkinson said. “Now there is a test, so our message to athletes is to think twice about using it.

“In the 1990s, athletes thought they could get away with using EPO and now there is a test for it. And the same is now the case with human growth hormone.”

UK Anti-Doping and its drug control center at King’s College London worked closely with the World Anti-Doping Agency throughout the analysis process.

Howman said the HGH test has been around since the 2004 Athens Olympics, but it hasn’t been available to every laboratory in the world. The testing kits weren’t widely available and the process was fully introduced only at the 2008 Beijing Games.

“There’s been a lot of cynicism that it’s not going to work and couldn’t be detected,” Howman said. “Now that we have a case, I hope it delivers a message to others that are using it that it’s a risk.”

By acting on the liver and other tissues, HGH increases bone growth and plays a key role in muscle and organ growth. That makes it a prohibited substance under WADA’s list of prohibited substances.

thanks for the info that was refreshing… good article!

Read the authors name and got me a nice glass of ‘Johnnie Walker Gold single Malt Flavor’ before reading.

GREAT TASTE, GREAT READ.

I am now officially a Ryan Dunn Fan.

Great work Ryan. I tip my hat to you sir.