Floyd Mayweather’s Legacy: If this were College Football or NBA Hoops
November 23rd, 2009
By Steve Lewis: By now, most boxing fans have heard of Floyd Mayweather’s proclamation that he is the best of all-time, surpassing the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, and Ray Leonard, among others. For those of us who take such self-congratulatory remarks with a grain of salt, we are not so quick to agree. With a potential Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao showdown in the works, talks of legacy and individual achievement are inevitable. While Pacquiao won’t comment on where he stands among the sport’s best, let us look at the merits of Mayweather’s proclamation.
And since no one has defeated Floyd, he asserts that he should still be the reigning pound-for-pound king, and should remain so until someone defeats him.
Putting aside the fact that ever since leaving the jr. lightweight division, Floyd has not faced anyone that posed a legitimate threat, merely being undefeated should not be the be-all-end-all determining factor as to who should be #1 pound-for-pound. Can we say “Sven Ottke?” If we were to compare Floyd of the 2000’s to college football, he would be like the Kansas State Wildcats of the 1990s (i.e., building up their reputation and claim for national championship contention by beating up on cupcakes and having a joke non-conference schedule). This is what’s referred to as “strength of schedule” or RPI index. In college football parlance, Floyd, as of late, has had a sucky schedule, a weak RPI. Even in fights that he should be blowing out, he squeaks by with ugly split decisions or stinks out an overly conservative approach to a decision. In college football, how you win can factor in.
And in college football, the #1 team can go on undefeated and still be leapfrogged by another team for the top spot. It depends on who’s been more impressive. If no.#2 has been facing tougher challenges and has been looking better than no. #1, pollsters can easily switch their respective positions. So, too, for the pound-for-pound rankings. Just because Floyd has not been defeated yet, does not mean he cannot be leapfrogged by someone more impressive. And let’s face it, Manny Pacquiao has been more impressive as of late than Floyd Mayweather.
With both Floyd and Manny being basketball fans, let’s put this in NBA parlance: if boxing were a game of one-on-one hoops, the all-time greats have battled the likes of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Wilt Chamberlain. But looking at Floyd’s résumé, all he has done so far in his career is beat the Brad Daughertys, the Derrick Colemans, the Adrian Dantleys, and the Mark Prices of the world. Respectable talent. Former all-stars. But obviously not in the same level as the aforementioned group. That’s what Floyd lacks – the elite opponent, not the mere “name” opponent. Arturo Gatti, Jose Luis Castillo, and yes, even Diego Corrales (RIP), as good as they were, are not in the same breath as Hearns, Hagler, Leonard, Ali, etc. Arguably, only De La Hoya fits into that elite status, but even then, Floyd fought a part-timer and only managed to stink out a split decision win. He should be much more convincing than that to proclaim himself best of all-time.
When the best you could do is name Diego Corrales as your signature win, you’ve still got a long ways to go towards that claim of all-time greatness. It’s not to say that Floyd can’t do it, but rather that he should go out there and prove it, rather than merely asking us to take his word for it.
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chavez jr. is 41-0. does that make him the best or better than muhammad ali?
ali was great coz he fights the best. ducking was never part of ali’s dictionary. but floyd jr. spells boxing as D-U-C-K.
Wayne, I think it is worth mentioning that Floyd called out Mosley on two separate occasions, as for Williams nothing against him, I enjoy watching him but he is not a very big draw and neither is Margarito. Now I admit I tihnk Floyd is much better than the aforementioned fighters I tihnk he basis his decisions off of money more so than anything else, which is completely different than being “chicken”.
I think it is worth mentioning that Paul Williams is like Lebron James…their size which is mother nature has a lot to do with their advantages, same can be said about Wilt Charmberlain during his day and to an extent more recently Shaq. What made me a big fan of Iverson’s was that he was a fearless small guy like Pac, however I must admit I think Kobe, like Mayweather are better than the two previously mentioned baskeball player and fighter.
ZMAN, I have to admit I am not a fan of the Klitcko’s or Lenox Lewis partly because their fighting styles, however I do not think Floyd should be put into the same category. Lennox and the Klitcko’s usually have a size advantage over there opponents and for them to not let their hands go is frustrating. Floyd does not have the same size advantages over his opponents so while he does not have a high punch output comparing his style to the big guys is a bit unfair.
I too like a technical fighter who outsmarts his opponent, good defense, I like flashy, but he has to have more offense for me. I don’t like the Klitcko’s, the Lennox’s, the Mayweather’s of the Sport. I like the Sugar’s, the Ali’s, the Roy Jone’s… For me, a guy who can hit and not be hit and at the same time deliver punishment while sticking his chin out… That’s what I like.
Just for kick’s here’s my list of favorites
Ray leonard, Ali, a prime Holyfield, roy jones and Mosley. I am mexican so there have been others in my “five” before, but right now these guys are it. (calzaghe is up there too)
motown, I like the way you think. Great analogies!
size, styles… you said it right… That’s why these guys are so interesting. Never have we had so much to analyze with Pacuiao, Mosley, Williams, and Mayweather. The most Intriguing group ever.
If he can easily beat these guys, within 2 years max, and Mosley being sooner than later, then Mayweather will Shut up everyone. He will be the best. I will hate to say it but Ok, I will say he is the best. HOWEVER… Unless he pounds them in doing so, KO or not, if they are punishing beatings, he wont be a P4P great. The most winningest, the greatest defensive…whatever, he can have all the other titles… but not a P4P. Sorry I respect his talent to the fullest, but the way I see it, with all that has been said, he needs these 3 wins and BIG to back up his mouth.
The thing with boxing is its a one on one sport. Lets be honest, Iverson is a scoring machine but becasue of his height would probably lose to someone less skilled but taller because of height, which is the case with PWill, he is a freak of nature just not all that skilled overall. I think Pac and Floyd is a good fight but I see Pac having a harder time with Floyd than vice versa…but I could be wrong.
ZMAN if I recall I probably have seen most of Pac’s fights over the last several years and while I find him to be entertaining I must admit my preference more of a technical natured fighting style. I admit I certainly think the DLH that fought at 147 for the first time in 8 fights was not the same, but Pac did pretty much destroy him like never before so kudos to Pac. As for Pwill he is a tough matchup for anyone because of his height and workrate but not the most skilled fighter….
Any comments on the Marquez, Barrera and Morales fights? I think Pacquiao’s stardom did happen quickly but his road wasn’t easy. I was not a Pacfan for those fights. But he has gained my respect. It seems like he has gotten better each time since. I don’t give him much credit for the Delahoya fight. Oscar hasn’t been the same since the Mosley fights. Even then he had slowed down some. Oscar’s prime was against Trinidad(one of the biggest robberies in boxing) Right now Pacman, Mayweather and Williams are at their primes. Mosley too but like I said, he is facing Father-time and Mother-nature like a time bomb. He has a good chance at growing old overnight.
“Keep in mind styles make fights” and boxers better than Pacquiao get beaten by him because of his offensive style. Paul Williams could probably beat all 3 of those guys(but it is a little early to tell) One thing for certain, although not worthy of P4P greatness, Mayweather is worthy of “THE BEST DEFENSIVE FIGHTER”, possibly “OF ALL TIME”.
ZMAN…well honestly up until lately I do not recall people clamoring for Pac to fight anyone in particular. The public was not looking for the DLH fight or the Hatton fight. His superstardom has happened pretty quickly and has not had the same pressure on him that Floyd has had in so much that Floyd has been on top longer. I do know that Roach does not want Pac fighting Mosley at 147 because “he’s better than DLH”
ZMAN…thanks for your response. I’m going to throw out a hypothetical scenario just for the sake of argument. Suppose Floyd beats Manny easily and goes on to beat the winner of Mosley/Berto easily and then Paul Williams. What if he beats these guys with relative ease, he might still not get his proper due simply because of his pesonality. The point is, he just might be that good that he is able to make his fights look “easy”. His personality should not discount his accomplishments.
one question, who has Pacquiao not fought that people demanded him to? I think Mayweather’s list is longer, and I think Mosley and Williams are on the list for both fighters. But in terms of performance and p4p greatness, Mayweather needs those guys more than Pacman. I will shut up if Mayweather dispatches at least 2 of them Manny and Mosley. But Now not after 2 years… Mosley has a great chance of becoming “old” over night.
Motownhitman, well said. I feel bad for Floyd because he might actually be a nice guy. He has totally “sold out” to the “stereo types” that people love to hate – for the sole purpose of “Money”. Yes people pay to watch him with hopes that someone knocks him out. That is too bad. I am a family man and sports are huge in the upbringing of my kids. I have a great respect for all sports as it helps build character and helps teach “life skills”. I can’t help but not like the image that he portrays. Also you are right about the possibility of “jerk tendencies”… but I think we all have them. Much wiser to to chose not to be the villain. Although for floyd it brings money, but never the same respect. I do agree with the article. Floyd could be 100-0 and it may never amount to a P4P” Title. It’s how you win that counts. It’s overcoming and imposing will in the face of uncertainty. It’s taking chances and beating the odds. It’s avenging Losses, It’s putting money aside (to some digree)and fighting the best. Putting it on the line. It’s respecting the sport, it’s respecting the hard work that deserving opponents have put in to get the shot they deserve. MannyP may have blemishes on his record, but his style and performance rank smuch higher on the p4p status than Mayweather could ever achieve. Unless PBF beats Mosley, Pacquaio and possibly Paul Williams… his legacy may never be defined.
Floyd has become who he has made himeself to be…the villain. Let’s face it, its all about marketing. The fact is he is a HUGE draw, because everyone routes against the villain. We know that his thing is money so he created an image that made people hate him but watch him anyway, if for no other reason to watch him get beat, in the process he makes a ton of money. Pac’s team has created an image as well, that he’s a down to earth likeable guy, but I submit there is an equal chance that he has jerk tendencies and Floyd is actually a decent guy. Since boxing is a one on one sport there are several variables that go into developing the sport that other sports don’t have to. In the case of Floyd and Manny its about their personalities. Lets be honest if Manny fought the same way he does but was a jerk would he be as popular conversely if Floyd fought the same way he fought but was a nice guy would he be as popular?
Did any of you see Floyd fight when he was young and his hands were still good. He had it all, speed, power, great boxing skills and he came to fight. He would do his best to hurt you and get you out of there. He was a pure pleasure to watch. If I was working night-shift I would go home from work just to watch him fight. When his hands went he had to make some changes in the way he fights. I think that if it weren’t for the bad hands he would have had a damn good chance at being as good as he says he is. We will never know.
floyd’s like the gosselins or the balloon boy….
they are proof that america can be a big sucker sometimes!
Wow you guys cant really compare Jordan and Floyd they’re two different levels. Floyds like a lebron
floyd leaves something to be desired…he’s one of the main reasons boxing has suffered until recently…when you have a skilled fighter with a lot of talent that doesn’t face the best, people will forget about your sport and turn to things like MMA…also the fact he doesn’t take chances to knock opponents out is really frustrating…the jordan of boxing- definitely not…if he was, he would have carried the sport on his back by fighting the best but instead he decided to retire for a year or so…pacman’s getting this sport back to where it should be…consistently challenging himself and going for the kill in his matches…that’s an all-time great in my book…
Let him duck the PacMan. He will be forced to fight Mosely and might lose in the process, together with his “0.” Then, he will lose his marketability.
Yes Floyd is capable of being called one of the greatest but has yet to prove his point…some may say yes he is and a lot more say he still has to…in others words, majority still feel he need to up his resume by fighting the best out there…Manny would always say in various interviews that he is just an ordinary fighter fighting at his best and Floyd would always claim to be the best fighting the not so great fighters…he may retire undefeated but there will always be an asterisk on his record…but I guess he just doesn’t care…so all other boxers who might want to challenge him – forget it!
Barerra (2x), Morales (2x), Marquez (soon to be 2x), Dela Hoya, Hatton, Cotto. All world champs and in my opinion elite fighters. Hatton would be questionable but we was lineal champ at 140.
That’s a nice resume.
Great Article! I couldn’t agree with you more..
floyd reminds me Michael Jackson both have head problems and think their special kings,michael has a real king chair,
Great article, nicely thought-provoking. Personally, I’m in the camp which firmly believes Floyd Mayweather is more intent on talking up decent achievements as great ones rather than blowing doubters clean away. Boxing doesn’t need a pr*cktease like that.
very truthful and factual article!
HE JUST WANTS TO PROTECT THAT O. HES RUNNING FROM MOSELY RAN FROM COTTO, MARGARITO, WILLIAMS AND NOW PACAQUIO. HES ALWAYS LOOKING 4 EXCUSES NOT TO FIGHT THE BEST. THE AMOUNT OF CRAP HE TALKS HE MITE AS WELL BECOME A POLITICIAN.
floyd has the best punch stats and accuracy ever so in basketball u could compare his accuracy to shots he has the best defence ever and i think that would go down as great as anyone in basketball. floyd is the michael jordan of boxing
How can you say that Floyd has not fought any noteable opponents of late and yet say that Manny has been impressive of late with wins over De La Hoya and Hatton some time after Mayweather beat them? Slightly hypo-critical no?