The Weight Debate
October 9th, 2009
By Craig Martin: It’s the word that plays on every boxing fan’s mind now. So much has been said recently I figured I’d throw in my two cents. Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Marquez are just a few of the names that apply to this issue. Floyd has received a lot of criticism for fighting the smaller man but mustn’t forget that Mayweather himself has risen through the weight divisions himself to win titles.
He hit Floyd with a rare clean right and Floyd just smiled. The weight played a big part in the manner of victory for Floyd but most would agree it would have been a victory nonetheless. I’ve yet to find someone who thinks Marquez would’ve won had it being an equal playing field weight-wise.
And now I’ve seen from some writers (you know who they are) that Manny is coming in for his own share of criticism for fighting Cotto at 145 pounds. I ask, is this not fair? Pacquiao has adapted better than anyone could have expected to at 140(-ish) pounds but Cotto is a true Welterweight at 147. A catch weight of 145 seems reasonable to me. Personally, I still feel that Cotto came up trumps in the negotiations. He weighed in at 146 in his last fight anyway.
While some feel Manny is trying to make his opponents come in weight drained, he shouldn’t receive the grief he has for his opponent’s mistakes. Oscar messed it up and Ricky, by his own account, peaked too early. Manny did his job and beat them soundly. I commend Manny Pacquiao for both wins.
While Pacquiao’s victories cannot be ignored, boxing fans have very short memories. In the build up to the De La Hoya fight, Manny was a huge underdog. If it were Cotto he was fighting, it would’ve been even larger odds against him.
The question is; if Manny beats Cotto (and it’s a big ‘if’) can the weight issue may become less of a factor to deciding the outcome of a future fights.
Tags: 37 Responses to “The Weight Debate”
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Ithink cotto eyes is going to be a factor,cotto doesnt moves his head much, even Oscar De La Hoya has good head movement, and still his left eyes was closing.cotto going to eat a lot punches,no way around it, if cotto cant ko,manny after 5 rounds cotto corner will call it quits as there no point in go on after cotto beating last fews fight .
manny and floyd has the best foot work,(that what makes manny great beside no losing power when moving up in weight, also he can fight on his toes and still can knock you out with eather hand,) I see manny winnig aka tko
but there both nice guys if cotto catches manny and wins that also fine with me.its how I see the fight going…
this is very similar to the catch-weight debate! not original at all
I’m waiting for a post like you Manuel_hater lol wheres manuel perez for hes career line lol totally funny,…. sometime its fun reading perez article couse it makes me feel i know something about boxing lol i mean common he’s articles are soo funny and annoying….
wer’z manuel perez?im waiting for him to put his career on the line….lol
Manny Pacquiao is a complete fighter…Versatile can adapt & adjust during fight-time…Speed is Power, Manny has speed in both hands, he can deliver power punches with jabs, crosses, hooks, upper-cuts, straights….Manny has good balance which gives him leverage to deliver power shots. Manny’s stamina is uncanny, he maintains high energy from opening to closing non-stop, it’s outrageous….Miguel has awesome power & good style but is too slow & predictable & tends to bog-out in later rounds stamina is questionable, that’s why he went into early training & that might not be good because of burn-out….Manny by 9th round TKO…Aloha
MAYWEATHER WILL FIGHT COTTO AND BEAT HIM NEXT YEAR.I SAY THAT BECAUSE COTTO WILL DEFINITELY KNOCK PAC-MAN OUT.IWATCHED PAC AGAINST MARQUEZ,AND I SAW MARQUEZ REPEATEDLY SHOOK UP PAC-MAN IN THAT FIGHT.COTTO IS MUCH QUICKER THAN PEOPLE THINK.YOU DON´T GET MUCH FASTER THAN MOSELEY AND JUDAH,IF COTTO CAN REAH THEM WITH PUNCHES,HE CAN CERTAINLY DO THE SAME TO PAC.NONE OF THESE SO CALLED EXPERTS EVEN NOTICED THAT PAC CLOSED HIS EYES AND SWUNG FOR KING AND COUNTRY WHEN HE HIT HATTON WITH THAT LEFT.HATTON WAS THERE FOR IT,WITH HIS HEAD UP IN THE AIR.FINALLY LET ME SAY PAC HAS YET TO PROVE HE CAN FIGHT GOING BACK,COTTO´S STRENGH AND BODY PUNCHING WILL MAKE HIM BACK UP.
nepster i love you insight but what im saying is i don’t think he can be cotto i want him too bc i wanna see him fight mayweather just like pbf pac makes you pay but manny leaves him self open as of his whole career but marquez was a good enough counter puncher and fast enough with that being said mayweather is faster stronger and smarter his combo works with guys he is faster then a guy with good speed and counter punching ability gives pac hell and floyd is the best man for that job it all comes down to in fight strategies and pac is hard headed if he gets fustrated or don’t adjust it wmtjm be just like the marquez fight right or wrong
You make the case for Pac,and how good the P4P showdown would be for the sport.I’ll do the same for Cotto and add something about how a possible trilogy with mosley would be the best thing for true boxing fans.We could both be right.
Hey Nepster! We should do a point-Counterpoint and submit it.
b4real…what tools does Pac have? Blinding speed? ODLH mentioned that Pac has the fastest hands he’s ever seen…he thought there was 10 of them in the ring (let’s not forget he fought SSM in his prime and FMJ in his prime)…David Diaz thought Roach was in there punching him…Can he hurt Cotto? Maybe…maybe not…but the punch that knocked out Hatton cold would have put a donkey to sleep. To me, the defining factor is, can Pac’s chin take Cotto, a real welterweight’s power? If he can, Cotto’s in for a long night…if not…Pac’s in for a short night. In regards to Mayweather, if Pac gets by Cotto, it proves he can bang with the boys at welter and it would be the best offensive fighter vs. the best defensive fighter…it won’t be a walk in the park like Mayweather vs. Marquez.
Tommy – thanks man…I agree, there are a lot of obnoxious fans here that take things a little too seriously and start making personal attacks. It ruins the site for actual debate and it’s a shame…2 to 1 betting odds against Cotto are great…I have to say though, every time I’ve doubted Pac in the past, he’s always proved me wrong…that’s why I’m slightly favoring Pac on this fight…I think the fight all depends on how Pac takes Cotto’s punches…I’ve seen Pac wobbled, but not in serious trouble recently, so I’ve got to give him the benefit of the doubt…
2lbs are nothing you idiot
hey guys… u cotto fans and pacman haters… dont be angry at me if i knock all of ur idol boxers out.. hahahaha…
weightcheater floyd jr deserves no props.
floyd too smart on weight and juan is just too slow.
You guys need to do your home work a little better, mayweather is use to fighting at 147, so when u bring guys up in weight who’s body aren’t use to fighting at that weight plays a big part in him winning and looking so good, everybody knows pacman won’t stand a chance against mayweather, we want to see him fight some real 147 or 154, hell even some real 140 would be good, e.I. Timm bradly would give mayweather all types of trouble, because u can’t sit back and pop shot him! As far as oscar, he was never nothing special, lost all his big fights! So beating him proves 0, maywether has all the skill but no heart!
pacman… over rated
cotto… under rated
mayweather… loved for his skills and hated for his skills
Nepster.Yeah! I dont think Cotto is the second coming or anything,I just like his style and size in this particular fight.Pacman is a much more exciting fighter to watch,and I’ll root for him,but I gotta take Cotto as a 2-1 underdog.I’m glad that some folks around here can disagree without being stupid about it.Have a good one,enjoy the fight.
i just have on question can you pac fans tell me the tools that pac has that say he is gonna beat cotto so convencingly boo what tool does have to say he’ll drop floyd a man who is never been drop please back up your thoughts bc i live in vegas we bet with our money and facts not our heart and pride so please explain
BTW, if Pac loses, I’d love to see Pac vs. JMM III to settle any doubt regarding the outcome of the previous two fights.
No problem Tommyand yeah, I definitely agree to that…but don’t take me wrong, I’m not saying that every one who thinks Cotto will win are Pac haters…I think Pac haters are the ones that say either Cotto wins or he was weight drained/wasn’t the same as when he fought Margarito…haters are the guys that give “conditionals” and are already making excuses if Pac wins…I myself am a Pac fan obviously, but I think he’s got a tough road ahead of him with Cotto.
Nepster.I dont hate Manny.If he wins I’ll just be wrong.no excuses.Do you agree to these terms?
The end is near at welterweight for Manny,after this one rather large hiccup he should dominate the junior welters for quite sometime.Sorry about the broken record,Cotto in ten.
Cotto will win this fight big. I like both fighters, but this is a bad career decision for Pacman. He is very fast, but he throws some wild shots, and Cotto is a big body puncher. Pacman will not be able to handle the presure from Cotto.
well pacman will demolish, cotto and then mayweather, and will retire
last comment SHOULD say (even those that predict a Cotto win by KO)…it shouldn’t imply if you think Cotto would win by KO you’re a Pac Hater..
Mr Rich and Royce – although you guys see a Pac win over Cotto as a credible one, Pac Haters (that predict a Cotto win by KO)will only say that Cotto was already shot or he wasn’t the same since Margo-cheato…some people just chose to hate and will never give Pac his props.
Bobby Winger – right…Marquez was the Pound for Pound number 2 meaning if he was the SAME SIZE as FMJ…but you can’t argue that Marquez at 142 is no where near the caliber of fighter that Marquez is at 130 or 135…He was MUCH slower and his punches had absolutely no pop against a weltwerweight…
if floyd fights a bigger guy like cotto, people are going to say floyd is to fast for him cause cotto is to big! someone is always going to complain, marquez was pound for pound number 2!!! pond for pound 2 and people think its nothing, he didnt win one round and floyd was still faster then the LITTLE marquez
There is not a problem making attractive fights at a catch-weight. The trouble with the Cotto Pacquiao fight is how the WBO title is being put on the line. If it’s a title fight, then the weight limit is 147. If it is a catch-weight then the title SHOULDN’T be on the line. Simple as…
pacman has a chance of beating mayweather,floyd knows that,when they meet in the ring on 2010, floyd would do is running and all the viewer will boo him all night in that match.
agree with Mr Rich.
If Manny beats Cotto, it will be the first real victory against a good opponent in a long time, no excuses. Hell, if he even makes a solid outing, it will be good. Cotto is big, young, intelligent, and talented. Just to make it 12 rounds without going down is something to be proud of.
i only fought manny because its a good ppv and a boost for my magazine sales (the ring) i weight drained myself so the fight would look even ,i knew this going to be my retirement pay , might as well get beaten up and humiliated,, didnt took long and walla,,, paycheck!!!
when in the ring NO EXCUSES!!! trainers and fighters knew their advantages and disadvantages prior to the fight. you get up in the ring 100 percent ready,, and just accept the fact that someone will loose and the other victorious,, you dig!!
just wait and see..
agreed to BRUNNER…
why don’t people credit pacquiao’s win over diazquiao , de la hoya and hatton? he has real talent and diaz is honest and man enough to accept it. de la hoya said he thought he was fighting 10 pacquiao and hatton was unable to say anything. in all of those fights pacquiao came to fight. the more he must be credited by his guts to scale the weights
Beating David Diaz proved nothing, lets face it, he has non-existent boxing skills. For whats its worth i beleive that Oscar De La Hoya was way past his prime and completely weight drained for the fight against Pacquiao. Hatton however was not a shot fighter and i still beleive he isnt, he just didnt use his head in that fight for anything other than a punch bag. To an extent its Hattons own fault, but i must admit that Pacquiao looked very sharp. If he beats Cotto and its a big if, i would say he has finally proved himself for the 1st time since he was a super featherweight by beating a very good, young, in his prime boxer. However my money will be on Cotto.