The Catch-Weight Debate
September 4th, 2009
By Tom Stokes: Manny Pacquiao (49-3, 37 KO’s) has come under fire a lot lately but one reason the critics are on his back again, is the fact that he is making Miguel Cotto (34-1, 27 KO’s) fight at a catch weight limit of 145 pounds for their upcoming super fight, with many boxing critics and fans alike criticising Pacquiao for not fighting at the 147 pound welterweight limit.
So why is it that the boxing world is only interested in criticising Pacquiao for wanting a catch weight below the 147 pound limit, and marquez seems to have gone unnoticed for his conquest to have his fight with Mayweather at an even lower catch weight than the Pacquiao/Cotto fight?
Cotto hasn’t fought below the proposed 145 pound catch weight since 2006 when he beat Paul Malignaggi (26-3, 5 KO’s), since then he’s competed at welterweight, so coming down those 2 extra pounds will mean more work for Cotto, since Pacquiao won’t have to worry about taking off to much weight, from that perspective I can understand why people are complaining about the catch weight for the fight and also having the WBO title on the line too.
But what about Mayweather, he hasn’t been lower than 144 since 2005 (1 pound less than Cotto), and that was when he fought Arturo Gatti (40-9, 31 KO’s) (R.I.P.), and to add to that Mayweather has been out of the ring for two years, and he’s got more weight to take off than Cotto, so how come Mayweather isn’t getting the same “sympathy” that Cotto seems to be receiving for his catch weight with Marquez.
If Marquez is victories against Mayweather will the boxing community be using the excuse that Mayweather was “weight drained” a term Pacquiao’s been hounded by since he demolished Oscar De La Hoya (39-6, 30 KO’s), (whom many had as the favourite to beat Pacquiao before the fight), or will the weight not be a factor in this fight and only a factor with Pacquiao/Cotto.
I understand that marquez has never fought at welterweight before and therefore it’s not entirely fair to have him weight in at 147, and yes Pacquiao has fought at welterweight before and knows the weight, but it feels as though Pacquiao is being criticised for every decision he’s made regarding his fight with Cotto, and Marquez is going unnoticed.
Is the reason Pacquiao is getting all the press on his catch weight because the WBO title is on the line and the next WBC diamond belt and the purse split too. Either way there is an unhealthy amount of criticism being thrown Pacquiao’s way at the moment.
But then again that’s the burden Pacquiao carries being No1, there will always be haters, you can never please them, and being No2 (Marquez) no one’s really cares what decisions you make (if the tables were turned and marquez was No1 things might be different or would they?), and if Pacquiao does beat Cotto I can guarantee that “weight drained” will be making another appearance into article’s and conversations regarding Pacquiao and Cotto, but I’m not sure whether the same will be said for Marquez if he beats Mayweather. Let’s have your opinion on the catch weight debate!
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During his last fight against Clottey, Cotto came in at 146. How will loosing the extra pound affect him? We will have to see. But it is no secret that at 147 Cotto is the bigger and stronger guy. The reason for the catch weight is to create a disadvantage for Cotto. Otherwise why? If Cotto’s title is on the line, they should fight at the title weight limit which is 147.
Pacquiao will find out how hard Cotto can punch despite him having to loose the extra weight.
What happened to marquez-mayweather fight is the opposite of pacquiao-delahoya fight. I think it is the responsible of the boxer why he loss or win no matter what the agreed weight. moving-up or moving down your natural weight will surely affects the fighter performance. i think it is also a gift to a boxer who can play with the weight, like pacquiao did.
CSRCX2 you need to kill yourself immediately.. last time I checked 145lbs is within the 141-147lb weight limit IDIOT.
why would anyone cirticize a small guy like pacquiao for not moving up a whole seven pounds? pacquiao is a jr welterweight not a welterweight, the fact that hes beat up 3 guys that are naturally bigger than him should shut most people up. de la hoya was dehydrated but it was still a remarkable win. manny is moving up 5 pounds and cotto is going down only 2 what the beef here? does pacquiao have to fight middleweights to get respect or what?
I knew Pac-man would loose the 1rst fight with Morales then win the next ones. I also knew he would loose both fights with Marquez but they were both stolen from him, I also knew for a fact he would beat DeLaHoya and Hatton. Now I can guarantee ya’ll he WILL LOOSE against Cotto! I’m also a Pac-man fan but I do agree that he is over-rated! Fan and all, I am able to pin point him out and I am a fan of both, Cotto will snap people back to reality. It is what it is.
it’s all about the $$$$$$$$ firstly. Secondly, Pacman can make 61kg, cotto is a 67kg fighter, why should pacman fight him @ 67kg? 65.5kg seems a fair compromise,especially as pacman is the bigger draw. If cotto wasnt happy with the weight he shouldnt have taken it, using that as an excuse after is bu**sh*t. Pacamn could clear up 61kg and 63.5kg if he wanted, but he’s showing the balls to step up even further, show the guy some respect! 14 months ago he was a 59kg fighter!
Answer – Because Pacman wants Cotto’s belt and to create history, so big difference. Most boxing fans would like to see him make history, but they want to see him do it fair and transparently. That’s why there has been the uproar. Cotto should have the right to weigh in at what he wishes so long as it’s on or under the 147lbs max, so should Pac. There should be no restrictions placed on either fighter, The WBO have handled this really badly and a lot of the blame should be laid at their feet.
plus nice rhyming title
what weight will marquez and pacman fight at is the question? its going to happen again! marquez has got the beating of pacquiao at light weight imo.
the reason y pac gets more negative attention 4 fighting @ a catchweight is because thats the only xcuse his haters got. they try to make themselves believe thats y he destroys people but its not. Pac is a true champ and deserves more respect and he will get it when he beats cotto. PAC IS THE P4P KING.
i hear the governing body will fine cotto 1 million dollars for every pound he will be over the 145 pound agreed weight. cotto is getting shafted from all angles on this one.
1st Marquez is going up 2 weight divisions to 9 pounds more than he has ever fought at. 2nd mayweather wont have to lose that much weight because although he hasnt had a fight in 2 years he walks around at his fighting weight when he isnt fighting anyway. 3rd im not 100% sure but i dont think they are fighting for a title. Unless its gonna be for some crap DIAMOND belt, but i think its only Paquiao that would fight for that garbage belt since he is so desperate to win 7 world titles. Paquiao is getting the better of the 60/40 purse split. he got the 8oz gloves even though most welterweight fighters use 10oz gloves. he is getting a shot at cotto’s title even though that wasnt part of the negotiations with cotto. i think most people will not deny that manny paquiao is a great boxer, but the reason why people are against him is because he seems to be motivated by greed. Marquez on the other hand is fighting for the challenge, to test himself. People respect that a lot more i think, i know i do. Dont over look the Marquez/mayweather fight because they are both counter punchers….its gonna be amazing.
Keep on sniffing Pacquiao’s jockstrap, you morons! you know nothing, nada, zero, zilch! But you will learn on November 14 what you should have learned long time ago. Pacquiao is overrated. You will see your idol sprawled on the canvas gasping for breath, bleeding all over the place, not getting up within the count.
to be honest its because hes fighting for a welterweight title but not letting the opponent fight at the limit, mayweather vs marquez is not for a title so it makes more sense to agree on a catchwight
the haters really believe that pacman is only pretending that he belongs in the lower divisions when pacquiao should be campaining in the heavyweight division.
IF YOU ARE BOXING FOR A WELTERWEIGHT TITLE… LET IT BE BETWEEN 141-147 NOT 141-145…WHY IS MANNY CRYING ABOUT EXTENDING 2 MORE POUNDS TO THE WEIGHT LIMIT??? B/C COTTO IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS THAN DE LA HOYA AT 147, FIGURES COTTO LOSES 2 POUNDS FROM HIS NATURAL WEIGHT=STILL DANGEROUS. WHILE DE LA HOYA LOSES OVER 6 POUNDS FROM HIS NATURAL WEIGHT=NOT DANGEROUS AT ALL(WEAKENED)(ON A DIET)…PEOPLE NEVER SAW THIS COMING…THEY ONLY SAW DE LA HOYA AS BEING THE BIGGER OPPONENT.. WHILE PACQIAO WAS 100%, ODLH WAS BEING REHYDRATED AND EATING MINUTES BEFORE THE FIGHT. MANNYS WIN OVER DE ODLH SHOULDNT MEAN SH*T TO THE BOXING WORLD. PERIOD
pacman isn’t anywhere near a true welter so it makes sense.anyway cotto fought at 140 for years it just means a slight adjustment in his dieting no big deal i just cannot wait for the fight coz it’s gonna be explosive,and it’s by no means a formality either.this is a pick em for me and i do believe it could go either way,lets face it there both proud warriors with alot at stake i’d go as far to say this could be fight of the decade!!!!
Very Good article ,if you are the star of the show critics always at your back cause thats the only way that thier article be noticed but if you are not the star of the show no body cares even your catch weight negotiation is far below the line. The critics will not bother to write anything cause they know that nobody will read or be interested in his critics.Then his article will be rubbhish cause no one is interested to read or do some reply.
1 pound makes no difference.i think the catch weights are fair bcoz both pacman and jmm are not welterweights and i dnt think pacman could get up to 147
AS YOU HAVE SAID THOSE CRITICS WILL ALWAYS SAY THAT COTTO IS WEIGHT DRAINED, HE IS DAMAGED GOOD AND WASHED OUT FIGHTER, BUT REAL REASON AND THE ONLY REASON IS THAT THEY FOUGHT PACMAN. I BELIEVED THAT ALL FIGHTERS TO BE PAIRED WITH PACMAN ON HIS PRIME WILL BECOME WASHED OUT FIGHTER INCLUDING MONEYMAY, AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Seems like there are a lot of Pac naysayers over here. Well, whatever pulls boxing out of the dolldrums and excite fans to support their chosen one(s) is always good.
The article does have some good points and also underscore further that boxing is a business . . even for newspapers and on-line sites. What ever is a more compelling line to bring out the emotions (either positively or negatively) of hardcore fight fans, casual fans, etc. e.g. whether its about the financial problems of Money Mayweather or whether Pac & his team is (seemingly) weight draining the next competition. Truth is, there is a lot of mis-information out there . . to focus on one part of the story, without taking the whole picture, only to suit the opinion of “so called” experts/writers/fans.
Case in point: Pac draining opponents. Last i read, its only this fight with Cotto that is on a catch weight of 145lbs (and Cotto weighed in at 146 during the most recent Clottey fight). The one with Dela Hoya which critics always use – C’mon, Dela Hoya called the shots and instructed 147lbs. He’s the Golden boy – he called the shots when he fought Manny, including getting a bigger share of the guaranteed purse, PPV slice, etc. The main culprit for Dela Hoya’s down fall was his pride/his “hubris” thinking he could beat Manny at 147 lbs! Plus Manny never gave him a chance to settle down on the fight . . he was always tagged, in and out was effective, and clearly, Roach was correct that Dela Hoya could no longer pull the trigger!
Secondly, the idea that Pac somehow “claims” to be the best boxer by retiring (drained) Oscar and possibly retiring (over-rated) Hatton . . is more like an urban legend. Truth is, Pac never could bestow on himself the unofficial title of “P4P best boxer in the world”, its the various boxing organizations, media (with their experts, boxing writers who follow the sweet science day in and day out) etc that decide on consensus based on current performance, who they think is the best boxer. It just happens that Ring Magazine (ringtv), ESPN, Yahoo, CBS, BBC, and other major media picked Pacquiao. In other words, the P4P title (though unofficial) is coveted because it is given by people who follow the sport . . any discussions that Pac is somehow forcing it upon himself don’t understand, that P4P is earned by fistic excellence (i.e. no title fees here like WBC, WBA, WBO, etc)
At any rate, I’m glad that this fight with Pac and Cotto has come to fruition. Both have legions of fans, both have fought outstanding competition (e.g. Pac – Marquez, Barrera, Morales; Cotto – Sugar Shane, Clottey), both come out to really do battle and give a genuine sense of what is pure in boxing – leaving EVERYTHING on the line inside the Boxing ring not only to further cement their storied careers, but to give us, boxing fans, that battle we are looking for.
I’m gonna say it again, nuttin matters, what ever weight is asked for, Cotto will do! He’s just getting started! If you watched Cotto since his underdog career, you would understand. The world of boxing will continue bringing on all types of opponents for Cotto and he will continue on fightings all different styles and tactics in for each and one of them. When have we ever seen him loose, (disregarding the Margercheeto fight) of course Pac-man is looking for each and every easy way out of this one!
Mayweather’s a different story. We’ve all seen him fight and understand why the prettyboy chooses his opponents.
Also, for all those that think Pac-man is gonna win, then, you haven’t really seen Pac-man’s previous fights! That has nuttin’ to do with “Hating.” It’s called knowing boxing.
To GuenoBatang,
Pacman has not boasted he beats Delahoya and Cotto at a time to fight goes to 148-154. So Pacman wants at weigh in at 145. You can see Cotto is full welterweight.
Whether Pacaman wins or losses in this fight. I love to see an exciting fight especially with pacman’s hand speed. It really creates an atmosphere of tension who’s gettin ko’ed.
National P wet is best after ur name GuenoBatang.
This was a prime Morales beating up Pacquiao. It’s too bad Morales ballooned up after this fight and had problems making weight in his other two fights against pacquiao. This version of Morales would always be able to beat Pacquiao. He just was a better figter than Pacquiao.
Damn that doesnt look like a winner to me
did you guys see the picture at the begining of the article where Pacquiao is getting f****** up?
pac man fighting cotto at 144 for the belt is bs and mayweather saying hes the best always fighting smaller guys is bs too these two should start acting like boxers and fight if you fight at 147 then fight 147 and if you wanna fight somebody smaller then you or bigger then you better meet them at there weight unless its for the belt then you better fight at the right weight
If you are boasting you beat ODLH at 147, then why the fudge did you ask for a catch weight against Cotto? Coz you can only beat dehydrated has-beens, shot beer-drinking overrateds and weak paper champions. But when faced with someone of Cotto’s caliber you want to handicap your opponent. And when someone like Mosley is willing to comedown as low as 140, you hide your tail between your legs. P4P king, my elbows! It only means one thing: You are chicken s…tew. National Fist? Na-ah… National P’wet is more fitting. LoLzzz!
Maybe cuz Cotto comes to fight and put up a good show when he fights at one 147 lbs when Mayweather comes to fight hand picked opponents when he could be fighting real competition! if Mayweather had to come down to fight Pacquiao or Mosley or had to gain weight to fight Margarito or Paul williams then I’ll feel sorry for him! But he’s losing weight to fight a guy who’s jumping 2 weight divisions to fight him!
mmmmmm i think the cotto fight could open a few peoples eyes i dont think paqman is dat great beat a very poor dela hoya n equaly poor hatton i think this fight will prove if he is the p4p fighter den onto mayweather 2 cement it
why do they criticize Pacquiao but not Marquez about the catch weight?
Simple.
Marquez is coming up in weight to fight a welterweight.
Pacquiao has been in the division but is forcing people to come down to the bottom end of the limit in order for him to have an advantage.
Personally i think the limits are set because if your weight is within those limits then that’s where you fight. If the division is between 141 – 147 the i think the fighter has the right come into the fight anywhere within those 2 numbers and not be forced to only be so big. If a fighter feels he needs speed to win maybe he should come in at 141 … if a fighter feels he needs power and strength the he has the option to come in at 147.
If Pacquiao can’t fight anyone bigger than 141 maybe he should go back to his light welterweight division.
That’s why everyone’s always misses the heavyweight division. when you’re at the heavyweight limit you have to go fight the champ no matter how big he is. I’m sure if Tyson at 220lbs had enough power to knock out a 300lbs opponent, Pacquiao can deal with 5 or 6 tiny lbs of a difference
If Manny wins, he will continue to pull the elite welter– even maybe super welters down to catchweights.
Should Marquez win, do you think he would have any interest fighting mosley or spinks? The only people he would want would be Pacquiao and maybe slide back down to 140 to win title #5.
Cotto has only had to lose 1lb, at elite level it is still a lot, but Mayweather has fought at 147 for 4 years not, so 3 lbs will be a lot more difficult then 1lb!
BUT – Marquez fought at 135 9 months ago! So thats exactly why people are not sympoathising with Mayweather! I know for a fact that fight will go the distance, Marquez will do a good job but as always Mayweather is a wily fox who will slip and duck the punches thrown at him and not really come forward, Mayweathers whole career is based on the fact he has never lost, he doesnt care about the fact he has fought none of the best guys at 147!
Good article,
Mayweather has been out for 2 years, he is geetin older and he always relied on speed which he will start to lose.
two things i notice about de la hoya is that any fighter that defeats him he talks down about them like if mayweather or pacquiao was to fight someone he will always take the other
fighters side to beat them. and two,if
you beat the bull out of him or knock him out like mosley and bernard did he will welcome you his stable or a partner in his company and he seems to play the race card sometimes.
I agree that you can never ever shut up the haters and you’ve just got to get on with it, it’s a shame really when people bring down such great fighters like Manny
The reason Pacman gets so much criticism is because he is using the fight with De La Hoya as his reason for being the best out there. If thats the case and he doesnt want to hear that he beat De La Hoya because he was old and weight drained then he needs to fight Cotto at the same wieght. He wont though because he wants to give himself every advantage possible. Marquez dont get no flak because Maywether for one is smaller then De La Hoya and Marquez has never faught at 147lbs.
Pacquiao is hurting his legacy by not taking on these guys at there own weight. Marquez will to if he goes out and fights some one 5 years older then him (which would be a 41 year old) and ask him to come down and fight 7 lbs lighter then he normaly does. Atleast with Marquez he is only asking the younger guy to lose 2 pounds more then he normaly does to fight him
*sigh*
*deep sigh*
give a guy a break -.-
very good point
the reason is simple, pacman is the best boxer in the world. people always want to the top dog to fall flat on his face
when mayweather was number 1 he got criticised for everything he did, same will be for pacman
for starters juan marquez is got to move up weight to fight mayweather so the 144 catch isnt a problem where as cotto has got to come down weight to fight paquiao which makes much more of a difference.
no one cares about marquez or mayweather thats why!