David Haye Vs The Klitchkos: Is The 3 Fight Contract A Blessing In Disguise?
April 9th, 2009
By Adam Fillingham: On the phone this week on Boxing on Setanta was David Haye. He was on the show mainly to promote his next fight against world heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitchko. Now I must say I will give him 10/10 for confidence as he showed a lot of it in the interview. His main talking point though was the contract that was offered to him calling it ‘a joke’ and that the klitchkos have the ‘ wrong mentality’.
David Haye’s chin isn’t the most sturdy of chins for a cruiserweight but when he goes up against a puncher like Wladimir its going to be a real test of his defencive capabilities. We have to remember that he was knocked down by Jean Marc Mormeck and Carl Thompson (who went on to make Haye’s only defeat) both are reasonably powerful, but they are no where near of what power Klitchko has.
Next is David Haye’s lack of natural size at least in comparison to the Klitchkos. Haye will most likely weigh in between the 210 and 220 pound mark but no heavier than that to keep his speed. Wladimir though will be weighing in between 240 and 245 pounds which means Haye will be giving up around 30 pounds to Wladimir. And that’s just the weight! He will also be giving up 3.5 inches in height ( Haye-6ft 3in Klitchko-6ft 6.5 in). There is also the factor in reach as Wladimir will have a 3 inch reach advantage over Haye.
Haye isn’t going to have the home crowd behind him in this fight as it will be at the Veltins Arena, Gelsenkirchen in Germany where the Klitchkos are based and with a string of ‘dodgy’ hometown decisions in recent times I think Haye could struggle if it goes the distance. Haye even said himself he will have to not win but ‘rip the belt away’.
My final point will be his lack of experience at heavyweight level. After only 2 fights at heavyweight his first coming against the unknown heavweight Tomasz Bonin ( although having a good record (37-1-0) he was only a ‘b class’ fighter) and his second against Monte Barrett ( a top 20 heavyweight 34-6-0) in a WBC title eliminator. Haye did absolutely demolish both of them and showed his class. Now I would be more confident in Haye if he had faced another two or three top twenty heavyweights first e.g. Chris Arreola, Alexander Povetkin, Kevin Johnson or Alexander Dimitrenko.
I do think that Haye may need this rematch clause due to all of the above reasons but here are some of the reasons I think the Klitchkos have put this contract together:
David Haye’s speed is immence and probably the fastest heavyweight (of any note) in the division. With this he carries a punch that has knocked out 21 out of 22 of his opponents which is a high 91.3% KO success rate, to Wladimir’s still high 83.64%. This though we must remember for Haye those knock outs (apart from two) were against cruiserweights. Haye though has a 100% KO ratio against heavyweights.
The second reason i think the Klitchkos are ‘scared’ is that Wladimir has lost three times. Now that may not seem all that bad as he has had fifty five contests. He has though been knocked clean out in all three and this will be a worry for them as Haye has frerocious power. With a dodgy chin and Haye’s power this could be a recipe for disaster.
Haye will also have most of the fans backing due to the lack of entertainment in Wladimir’s recent fights and the great entertainment in David’s. I think most fans out of eastern Europe will prefer to see Haye as champ rather than Wlad. Wlad sits behind his jab all the way through the fight and although this tactic helps him win fights it isn’t helping him win fans.
So to finish off I will say that the Haye/Wladimir Klitchko fight is a 50/50 one. I cant even start to think of a prediction of who will win this one. I know there are a lot of Haye haters out there that don’t believe he yet deserves a world title shot but think about this. Would the Klitchkos have imposed this contract if they weren’t at all scared? We will find out on June 20th.
Tags: 28 Responses to “David Haye Vs The Klitchkos: Is The 3 Fight Contract A Blessing In Disguise?”
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ok Adam. If Haye wins 1-st one, he’s to fight a rematch with Wladimir. And if he a rematch, he is obliged to fight Vitali in a second rematch. It’s 3 fights, 2 rematches (potentially), but one rematch is with the brother – the same thing happened with Sanders fight, when Vitali was doing a “rematch” for his brother. So you can say it’s 3 fights because the 3rd fight will most likely be with Vitali. I called it a rematch because I tread them as “family”, and this is how they operate. They’re avenging their losses (Byrd, Sanders). So I can easily agree to the terminology – because this is what it comes down to.
What’s idiotic about this contract is, that Haye – provided he wins original fight with Wladimir and rematch with him, is still obliged to fight Vitali. And this is the “stupidity” and “originality” of this thing. I’ve never heard about King doing a contract, where say Holyfield after beating Tyson was obliged give him a rematch (it’s normal so far) and then fight his brother, or any other person for that matter. One fight, and if champion losses, the rematch if he choses so.
In Klitschkos case it’s double security in case of Wlad losing twice – there is no other reason for all this fuss. So now show a contract in history where contender after winning a title, and winning a rematch with defeated champion, is obliged by contract, to fight a third fight with brother of the ex- champion, or any other person.
I don’t give a damn about the rest – just show me. Where in history a champion after winning a title and defending it twice was forced to fight a brother of a defeated champion (or maybe an uncle? sister?). Did DeLaHoya fordce Pacquaio do do this? Pacman was coming up in weitht, and so what? DeLaHoya was coming up in weight for Sturm – first fight at middleweight and he’s fighting for a title. Happened? Happened. Was ther any 3 fight stupid contract? don’t think so
What i mean at the top there is Haye wants to be a Heavyweight champ, i think its irrelevant who was holding the titles, he would go after any of them.
Ah, i get what you are saying now JJ. Im not sure if the governing bodies have sanctioned this fight, id have to assume they have because whats the point in it if they havent? I dont think Haye would be fighting Wlad just because he wants to, id have to be a bit presumptous and say the titles are involved here. The governing bodies will be getting the best payday possible at this time in the Heavyweight division, as this is probably the biggest match up available at this time.
Adam, its hard to explain this contract due to the stupid tie in fights. It isnt a 3 fight contract because if Haye loses, he doesnt get the other fights. Basically, he needs to win for the contract to kick in. I seriously doubt the brothers have tied themselves into a contract they cant get out of, if it were a 3 fight contract and Haye loses the first fight with Wlad, will Wlad want a rematch? I seriously doubt it. Would Vitali go after him? No chance. So by no means is this a 3 fight contract.
Its better explained as a 2 rematch deal because the brother he fights isnt actually stipulated to my knowledge. As Haye worded it, he has to fight 2 rematches against a “Klitschko”, doesnt say which one, just one of them. Haye vs Wlad is obviously the first fight, its likely Wlad will want the rematch should Haye win, and Vitali is tied up with another mandatory for the WBC so he would be unavailable anyway.
And Doctor, the Klitschkos had to make concessions for Haye because their original contract was as big a joke as this one. They did have the right to draw up the original contract, but both fighters have the right to ask demands, such as a 20 foot ring and promotional rights and such like. But you are right, it doesnt matter now, its signed. Roll on fight night.
Further to that Steve Bunce on Setana Sports said he had to believe Bernd Bonte for the Klitschko’s THEY had made concessions and not Haye, making Hayes claims false. I’m sure some will disagree. I know who I believe.
See Don King for crazy contracts nothing new here, stop going on about it, its over. You wont have to worry about anything after the fight because the contract wont matter, we all know why.
You have only to look at the history books reference Wladimir and we go back along way. Jameel McCline is in the ring tonight and is still a dangerous fighter, dealt with convincingly by Wlad almost 7 yrs ago. Hayes ONLY HW name (Bonin was walking dead) Barrett, was knocked down 5 times and TKO in 7 almost 9 yrs ago, 9yrs, Barrett then had 24 fights to his name was at his peak and 1 loss never been put down. That speaks volumes for me. Haye is to worried about not getting through good opposition to get to the Boss and I agree with him. He talked his way up there and good luck to him for that as well. BUT talk is cheap and you have all been suckered into it.
Haye would sign anything for the one shot and I’m with him on that one. however it will be the only one.
If you call getting knocked unconcious a blessing, then so be it.
Well said Jack.And don’t forget that Wlad’s 3 losses came by big punching Heavyweights.Wlad took the puches well.Haye got n old fashioned beat down by a 190 pound Cruiserweight.Wlad is not a 190 pound cruiserweight.
JJ,what dude,are you a complete moron?There isn’t a 2 rematch clause.It’s a 3 fight deal.Explain to me how a 3 fight deal can be a 2 rematch contract between 3 boxers.Read very carefully.He fights wlad with a rematch clause because Wlad is the champion.If Wlad losses he gets his rematch.That would be 2 fights.1 fight with Vitali.No rematch clause.2+1 is 3.Got it?Very good contract done by the 2 champs.And the one cryin like a btch is the other to sign.It’s not complicated at all.Haye ran his mouth.Got his wish to fight both bros.And is now realizing he has bitten off more than he can chew and is whinning like a sissy.
What I meant Scott, was, that it’s just between them – they agreed to fight so many times, but that sanctioning bodies were not involved…. I believe. If not – then it’s completely ubound one to another. I mean this fights are not neccessarily for any titles – it’s simply up to this sanctioning bodies what they do. They might say – you must fight Povietkin, or Golovkin, or goddam Johny “the armageddon” Ballony. And obviously everyone involved will follow the money. On the other hand bodies will probably find the way (or at least try very hard to find one) to follow whole this situation, and put their sticky fingers on the sanctioning fees:) Good thing is that Vitali will defend his title against whoever is on the plate ( probably Sean “the right cross” Kloss, club him in 8 rounds of left jabbing and wait for the result of the second Hay-Wlad if the one happens, or jumps right in in unification/brother’s revenge bout, leaving Golovkin, Povietkin, Chagaev, Valuev, Gorbachov and Smirnoff waiting (if they won’t hurt their ankles, wrists, heads and penises along the way)
I think Ive just overcomplicated your point though!!!!!!
Obviously the first fight is for the titles, should Haye win then so is the rematch against Wlad, because the mandatorys havent spoken up before the contract was signed, they cant argue for the governing bodies to intervene with the contract to this point.
But should Haye win the rematch then he is tied in to fight Vitali. If the mandatorys speak up at this point then Haye gets stripped of the titles and they go up for an elimination bout. Thats how i see it going in this circumstance.
So yes JJ, the third fight may not be for the titles, but i think its down to Dimitrenko and Povetkin because the governing bodies dont seem to fussed at this point. Given that Dimitrenko and Povetkin may fight between themselves, the winner of that bout would almost definately want a pop at the titles, making a Haye win all the more detrimental to his chances.
This is all dependant on Haye winning, but like I said, its a possibility
and by the way Scott – I pretty much agree what you write about this situation – exept for this little detail.
Again about the contract!!!
To quote myself, it screws over the mandatorys should Haye win, everybody seems to be forgetting that when discussing it. The brothers have absolutely no right to tie up TITLES in such a manner. Yes the tie up is dependant on Haye winning, but thats a possibility.
Its not really a blessing in disguise for Haye, if he loses, its over for him, if he wins, hes guaranteed the rematch with Wlad, should he win again, hes guaranteed the shot at Vitali, regardless of any contract. Making him sign up to it just ties up titles.
The brothers are well aware that should Haye win, Povetkin and Dimitrenko will call for their mandatory shots, meaning Haye has to defend. This will mean the titles are at risk of passing hands and they will have to go through the process of becoming mandatory challengers again to regain the titles. By making Haye sign this contract, they have all but blocked the true mandatorys rights to a shot because Haye has no option but to fight the brothers first.
And Adam, the brothers you love unconditionally arent stupid, they are well aware that Haye is the biggest and most talked about fighter to enter the Heavyweight scene since christ knows who, they wouldnt have passed up the cash they will earn from this fight to go up against less supported guys like Povetkin and co.
isn’t 5’12″ 6′feet?
I cant wait to watch you all eat your words when Haye smashes wlad up! Then it will be how it was a fix and he took a dive etc etc etc. Grow up and accept the fact that Haye is the real deal and is going to be champ.
Doctor, so noone has ever signed a ‘bad’ contract in the history of contracts? Grow up.
Adam, you are a child and a moron. I’ve told you before, if you want to make a point fair enough, but don’t lie. You just look like a tool. Mormeck is almost 5 ft 12.
Its is strange you know when you look back at the comments on this site, in 2007 before Haye fought Barrett there was no talk of Haye at all, not even his success. It started after the shopping mall incident. Absolutely no comments made on his fights with Mormeck, not 1. He defeats a second rate CW Maccarinnelli still no commnets, not 1, and then a past his sell by date HW in Barrett in 5rds. Then away we go.
Why is he going to be King? Just curious.
Here we go again with the ‘he doesn’t deserve a shot, he should work his way up in the division first’ bullsh_t. Why should he? On that rationale Pacquaio should prove himself at jr welterweight before gettin the Hatton fight! Stop being sp narrow minded!
the only way these rematches take place if Haye wins not if wlad wins. get ya facts right
The TKO by Wlad is what I believe he will accomplish. Should Haye ever meet Vitali in the future, nothing to do with now, then Vitali would KO him that is what I meant.
I would repeat, the issue here is the contract stinks, says Haye and his followers. THEN DON’T SIGN IT. And work your way up like everybody else.
JJ, you are a complete fool.There’s not 2 rematch nothings in this contract.Haye said he wanted both Bros and he got it and now he’s cryin like a sissy.The only rematch in the contract is with Wlad.Hence 3 fights.1 with Vitali 2 with Wlad(if Wlad losses) 1,2,3.Get it.So now you dont expect the heavyweight champion of the world to put a rematch clause in his contract.Gimme a break.And whoever the other fool was that said that Haye has more power than Wlad is on some good drugs.And you idiots really should come up with some new insults because the Wlad is scared argument is plain nieve and foolish.Scared of David Haye?If Wlad was scared he would have told Haye to earn his shot.Who the fk is David Haye.A cruiserweight that got put on his ass by a couple 190 pound smurfs.Mormeck put him down and he’s 5’6.The Klitschko’s called Haye’s bluff with a contract to fight both bros and haye had no choice but to sign the contract.Now he realizes he’s in deep sht and is cryin himself to sleep at night.Doctor I think you got the predictions wrong.Wlad and Vitali by harsh KO.Canvas nap btches.
ok Doctor – it’s a waste of time to read the pulp you write – true champions, ambasadors of the sport blah blah blah, and you show the measure of moronic thought patters most of you have. How you measure it – being a TRUE champion or, being not scared? if by the grimace of ones face, than this guy is the most scared bloke I’ve seen in this ring….
And what I guess is, that there is no rematch clause for Haye, so if he losses that’s it.
So there is not Wlad by tko and Vitali by ko, cos if Wlads win, there is no Vitali. That’s over. Are you getting this?
Plus I’ll tell why this contract is dumb – because it has 2 (Two, Duo, Deux, Dwie, Zwei) rematch clauses. This is unheard of, and if you force something like this, means you’re worried about something. Literally, by option Wlad will loose twice… But then, Haye would fight Vitali ANYWAY. So that’s why it’s giving them nothing, exept of boosting Haye’s confidence. It’s the most biased contract I ever heard of. It’s stupid for multiple reasons and it will remain stupid no matter what will happen.
IF Haye loses the 1st Vlad fight isnt that the end of it? The only way re-matches are required is if he wins?
Thats a question by the way.
Some of the comments here are simply facile they have no substance. Stop this silly nonsense about it being a bad contract. You know what you do with a bad contract you don’t sign.And if its a stupid contract one must be stupid to sign it.Haye signed it because he wants it. Period.
The Klitschkos are scared!! Neither of them has to meet Haye he isn’t a Mandatory he could easily be made to work his way up and get stopped on the way, so a stupid and pointless remark.
A true champion would not make anybody sign a contract like this. THEY are Both true champions FACT and nobody has to sign anything, they are all grown up they can say NO.
And the old favourite Klitschkos are frightened about Wlads chin. He wasn’t worried in the last 10 fights. Give me a break if he was that worried Vitali would be getting the Job. Here are some facts.
Both Brothers are true champions whether any body likes it or not. Both are KO man with a superb record.
Both are great ambassadors for the sport of Boxing which doesn’t need Loud mouths and gangsters.
The chances are Wladimir will win. Forget this 50/50 nonsense everything is in Wlads favour. And no way could Haye defeat Vitali, absolutely no way.
Haye is a carbon copy of Hide, Gomez, not ever Holyfield, don’t mention Hayes name in the same sentence.
I couldn’t give a dam about the contract since I didn’t sign it so why are you all angry about it. Oh yes I nearly forgot in case Haye gets whacked. I hope so because I don’t like his language about Opponents being cowards and Bums. I know we will get the usual nonsense about the two Brothers not being good for boxing. Well in my view what would be good is for Haye to work his way up to a Mandatory shot and probably get stopped by Dimitrenko on the way. That would be fair but not good for Haye fans. who want everybody to stand aside. Well it beats me they have and Haye has got his shot so stop moaning and just wait for the fight.
Wlad by TKO. Vitali by KO.
Kick their asses David!
All i can say is i fully respect haye for going for the big time and i wish him good luck. If haye can pull a sanders that would be excellent, so many good british fights coming up =)
I think the fight is one of those where nobody can predict who will win. Its all going to be down to luck and what happens on the night.
Something i would like to know is what the original contact was 3 months ago. This one where the brothers promote the next 3 Haye fights and decide all the venues and revenue shares etc… This is a ridiculous contract for any boxer to have to sign, a true champion would not make anybody sign such a obviously biased and unfair contract. Atleast not a confident champion.
It took 3 months of talks to get the contract where it is now… i wonder what the original one wanted? Maybe the brothers wanted haye to buy them donkeys or give them his wife? Maybe they wanted him to tie one hand behind his back? Or hop on one leg for the entire fight? Maybe they wanted their mum and dad to be the judges? Or their pet cat to be the ref?
Who knows…. They are both scared of Haye. They are rubbish boring champions.
I think exactly the same thing.
And Adam – this contract thing has a few angles…
1/ this contract is stupid, because it includes 2 rematches, not one. For that reason it’s stupid and Haye have all the right in this world to say it out loud.
2/ yes, it’s potentially good for Haye, but still stupid. It says two things – a/ Haye really wants this fight badly; b/ Klitschkos are worried about something. And I have to agree – it’s Wlads chin. You had this feelin since it all started, that they want to put Viatli agains David, simply because he’s very good chin.
3/ Klitschkos would get the same without coming up with curiosity like this contract. The only reason for that is the assumption, that Haye can win with Wladimir twice. This is what it’s saying about it all.
I’m all for Haye. I’m not a Brit – as you can easily see:) – but I’m all for this guy
JJ