What Does Calzaghe Have To Do To Surpass Jones & Hopkins?
January 14th, 2009
By Scott Gilfoid: Okay, Joe Calzaghe (46-0, 32 KOs) has somehow stayed unbeaten his entire career up until now, that’s something we all can agree on right off the bat. But what Calzaghe do to surpass boxing greats like Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr., if at all possible at this late stage in Calzaghe’s career. For me, I don’t that it’s possible now. The biggest problem for Calzaghe is that he has a large gap between 1993 and 1997 where he fought exclusively mediocre opponents.
At that point, Calzaghe fought Chris Eubank, a former champion who was at the very end of his once great career and had little left. After beating him, Calzaghe went through a long nine year period where he fought mostly soft opposition with little talent and hardly threat to him. I call those the ‘lost years’ of Calzaghe’s career. As Gertrude Stein once said, “there is no there there.”
In Hopkins’ case, after he lost his first fight of his career, a four-round unanimous decision to Clinton Mitchell in 1988, Hopkins stayed unbeaten until losing a 12-round decision to Jones in 1993. Hopkins would then fight to a 12-round draw with Segundo Mercado in 1994, getting knocked down twice in the process. In the next 14 years, Hopkins would beat quality fighters like John David Jackson , Felix Trinidad, William Joppy, Oscar De La Hoya, Howard Eastman and Winky Wright, among many others while losing twice to Jermain Taylor and once to Calzaghe. The losses came after Hopkins had turned 40.
Jones was unbeaten for the first eight years of his career starting in 1989 and ending in 1997 when he lost by a 9th round disqualification to Montell Griffin. During that stretch of Jones’ career, he beat excellent fighters like Thomas Tate, James Toney, Vinny Pazienza, Tony Thornton, Eric Lucas and Mike McCallum. From 1997 until the present, Jones beat Virgil Hill, Lou Del Valle, Otis Grant, Reggie Johnson, Richard Hall, Eric Harding, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Glen Kelly, Glen Kelly, Clinton Woods, John Ruiz and Antonio Tarver.
As you can see, Calzaghe’s ring record comes up far short for both fighters when compared. Calzaghe comes closest to Hopkins, but even Bernard’s record looks incredible compared to the largely mediocre fighters that Calzaghe has fought for most of his career. So what can Calzaghe do to surpass Jones’ and Hopkins record?
Well, he clearly doesn’t have a chance of surpassing Jones, not unless Calzaghe wants to start his career over and fight mainly good fighters from the start instead of the easy ones that he did fight. If Calzaghe had fought Jones, Hopkins, Nigel Benn, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Reggie Johnson, Harding and others in the early part of his career and somehow stayed unbeaten, then I could see him as surpassing Jones. However, that’s not possible now. What’s done is done. Calzaghe should have thought about that long ago and stepped up the plate and fought these guys.
But I do think Calzaghe has a good chance of beating Hopkin’s legacy. It won’t be easy, though. For that to happen, Calzaghe is going to have to stick around for two more years and fight Chad Dawson, Carl Froch, Lucian Bute, Allan Green, Jean Pascal, a rematch with Hopkins, Librado Andrade, Karoly Balzsay, Jermain Taylor and Zsolt Erdei. If he beats all those guys, then I can see Calzaghe surpassing Hopkins’ legacy.
That’s the only way I can see him doing it, though. Calzaghe has wasted too much time in his career fighting nobodies, so unfortunately he would have to work extra hard in the latter part of his career to undo the damage and put some real names on his record.
The chances of Calzaghe beating all those guys are slim and none, about the same chances that he would have in beating a prime Jones and Hopkins.
Tags: 17 Responses to “What Does Calzaghe Have To Do To Surpass Jones & Hopkins?”
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the article is absolute rubish and confirms yet again how biast americans are when talking about british fighters. its a waste of time talking to these idiots.
Utter ownage of Scott by Daveyboy. That was a joy to read.
haha scotts ragin lol try not rightin so much tripe in the future you idiot please tell that to your colleage lieberman aswell. jerks
how do you know you dont like it until you have read it first? common sense is absent such as your boxing knowledge.
I wrote the article, if you don’t like it, don’t read it!
Some one band Rob G. He is getting old!!! Kick him off the site.
Thank you
During Calzaghes so called ‘missing years’ he fought top class fighters in the guise of Omar Sheika, Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer, Ritchie Woodhall and a prime Robin Reid. Whilst I fully accept that none of the above are ‘greats’, they were top notch fighters whose records and ability should not be belittled by some biased chump who knows clearly very little about boxing. If the author had any idea about boxing, he would know that all of the above were worthy of a mention on Calzaghe’s resume. How can you write off a large part of his career as wasted when he fought those guys?!?!?! They were the only worthy fighters around during his prime! RJJ and Bhop, along with every other great in history have u/k and dubious quality names on their records, but it doesn’t diminish their legacy. Neither should they diminish Calzaghe’s.
Benn and Mclellan were finished before Calzaghe was even a name in Britain, let alone anywhere else. Collins retired instead of facing him. Bhop doubled his pre-agreed fee to fight Calzaghe because he was petrified of facing him, and politics and an arogant American superiority complex put paid to a RJJ fight in his prime!!!
so you want him to have 10 fights in 2 years against mostly average fighters. hes done beat hopkins who beat pavlik who beat taylor twice why again? greens been found out,pascal lost to froch, and froch is waiting to be found out, the owls got nothing but his chin
look at hopkins record, he fought basically unknowns for 10 years at middleweight then lost to taylor twice, he was definetely avoiding jones. and even jones record aint nothing to really shout about, thats why u should rate thenon their boxing ability, which calzaghe has plenty of.
great comment by dave boy. balanced and fair. wen calzaghe retires people will recognize just how good he was. jones jnr and hopkins both amazing especially Bhop
You should rename Calzaghes “lost years” as the “avoided years” coz no one wanted to fight him. He’s a victim of that imo.
Author – do you know your boxing history?
To be honest I agree, Joe may never achieve the same status as RJJ or BHOP and I don’t believe he would’ve beat either in their prime, but the writer has once again riddled it not just with biases but historical errors.
If he is going to compare careers/legacy’s wouldn’t it be fair to disect all parties involved rather than just one?
You say the biggest problem in Joe’s career is, what was he doing between 1993-1997? fighting mediocre fighters? Well he had just turned professional, and like all boxers was on a steady course upwards. Different boxers take different amounts of time, the majority never go above national/continental level but those that do tend to take around 4 to 5 years from turning pro to challenging for a title. Think the following:
Ali 1960-1964
Holmes 1973-1978
RJJ 1989-1993
BHOP 1988-1993
Some excel very fast, think Mike Tyson (20 months) Floyd Mayweather jnr (2 years) and Oscar (12 fights), so between 1993 and 1997, Joe was developing from an amateur into a world class contender – why is that a huge problem?
You correctly pointed out that Eubank was not the force he once was by 1997 when they fought for the WBO belt, that was out of Joe’s control. Most new champions tend to beat champions that don’t quite have the same venom as earlier, that’s how the baton is passed on.
The 9 years onwards I can’t really argue about. Impressive, good, not great but consistent. Fights should have taken place between Joe and RJJ., Joe and Sven Ottke, Joe and Lucas, Joe and BHOP but for one reason or another they never materialised.
Part of it was boxing politics. The main belts didn’t really acknowledge the WBO and refused to co-sanction fights, WBC/WBA champs could be stripped if they fought anyone with a WBO belt and this continued until 2001/2. Joe had nothing to offer RJJ, nothing to bring during that era too. Joe’s lack of Charisma made things harder too. The BHOP fight nearly did materialise, until BHOP withdrew when he demanded double the original agreement.
Most of that was out of JC’s control, he did at least show willing but he got on with his career the best he could and it is unfair to call it a waste.
The next point is the list of Calzaghe opponents.
Writer mentions that he should have stepped up with Nigel Benn, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Reggie Johnson, Harding etc.
Benn was finished by 1995/6, 3 final losses in a row.
McClellan suffered his injuries in Feb 1995, less than 18 months after Joe turned pro, talk about expectations (I hope the writer is nt a trainer or promoter) The fact is Joe was a few years after all the greats you listed. By the time he would’ve been able to fight them, they would’ve had to come out of retirement or were completely over weight and shells. If he had fought them then, I bet the writer would’ve made comments (as per “over-the-hill” Eubank comments). Two things that have damaged his legacy – being born 4/5 years too late and the lack of any serious domestic rivals.
There is a certain person the writer has distorted and allowed to escape from criticism. Mr Roy Jones himself, who I shall come too as far too much credit is given to some of his opponents.
A list of “Excellent” boxers pre-1997 he fought were Thomas Tate, James Toney, Vinny Pazienza, Tony Thornton, Eric Lucas and Mike McCallum.
Pazienza? excellent – began as a lightweight, come off 2nd to second-tier fighters such as Haugen, Roger Mayweather and Hector “Macho” Camacho (who were all one level below the elite of Chavez and Whittaker) but does manage to beat a 46 year old 168lb Roberto Duran on points? he was mediocre.
Tate was a mediocre fighter too, loss to Jackson, failed in his bid to win the little regarded WBU belt and suffers a knock down from Omar Sheika (one of the opponents you describe as mediocre who fought Calzaghe)
Thornton – an okish fighter, also beaten by Eubank and Toney.
Lucas – very good but peaked a few years after he fought RJJ,
Toney – excellent at his peak (but drained for the RJJ fight, had to loose 16lbs a couple of days before weigh in – hence his lacklustre display)
McCallum – a certified hall of famer and one of the best fighters of the last 25 years but 40 years old and long past his best when they fought. RJJ was 28 at his peak.
Why doesn’t the writer mention these things about RJJ opponents? instead of asking why Joe didn’t fight the likes of Benn/McClellan/Jackson etc – what about Mr Roy Jones himself – born in 1969 he was a world champion with world renown by 1993, right in the thick of the middle/supermiddle/light heavy clashes that were going on both sides of the Atlantic – does Roy fight Benn? – no. Does he fight McClellan? – no, Does he fight Michael Nunn? – no, Does he fight Frankie Lila? – 5 year super middle champ? – no. Does he fight Julian jackson? – no. Does he fight Eubank? – no. Does he fight Collins? – no. Whilst the pre-Calzaghe greats were in war with each other, Roy didn’t want to know, yet Calzaghe, who was just turning pro at this era is criticised?
Those missing 1993-97 years the writer should ask why RJJ wasn’t facing his peers.
I could go on about RJJ’s refusal to give Hopkins and Toney rematches, his refusal to face his undefeated light-heavyweight rival Dariusz Michalczewski WBO Champion, the mediocrity of Otis Grant, Richie Hall and Lou De Valle in the Light-Heavy division (no Scott – they weren’t excellent) but my points are to show how it is easy to find fault in anyone’s career if you focus on the negatives. I’m a big RJJ fan and instead I look at his accomplishments.
Calzaghe, at an advanced age defeated the next big thing, defeated the current super-middle number 1, defeated a wily Hopkins and according to both Sugar Ray Leonard and Mr Jones Jnr is the best Super-middle to Light heavyweight in the world at present after a 15 year undefeated almost 50 fight professional career. I know that is hard for some Americans to take but true, and no, he’s not gonna have what??? – 10 fights in 2 years? maybe if they’re 3 x 2 minutes per bout? why not suggest he move upto heavyweight too?
Roy Jones Jnr – one of the greatest 160-175lbs ever
Bhop – one of the top middleweights ever – alongside monzon and Hagler.
Joe Calzaghe – a legend and all-time great who deserves some respect rather than having his career described as a “waste”
All future Hall of Famers, all great legacies.
I have to question the writer’s knowledge, he seems to inflate the negative and deflate the positive until he see’s such a distorted view it could be dangerous if he is allowed to have any influence on any other Human being!!!!!!
sorry for essay!
Jones unifed the titles, went up to heavyweight and won a title, then come back down to light-heavy and took the title back. Hopkins unified the titles, fought unil he’s 44+ and is still a major force in boxing. Jones and Hopkins took big risks in their careers. Joe’s undefeated record is impressive, but in my opinion, he would solidify Jones-Hopkins status by unifying the light-heavy title. The fact that he never unified the titles suggests he didn’t take enough risk.
Top 10 fighters in the world –
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Ricky Hatton
Joe Calzaghe
Juan Manuel Marquez
Bernard Hopkins
Antonio Margarito
Manny Pacquaio
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
As soon as i saw this article was written by the fat gilfraud i didnt read it so i dont know what it says!!
Joe is unbeaten in 46 fights and a world champion for over 10 years.
He doesn’t need the approval of some dumbass who doesnt know anything about boxing.
Hopkins and Jones were great fighters but they both have serious flaws on their records – are you telling me that the likes of Jermain Taylor, Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver would beat Calzaghe? Don’t make me laugh. Joe’s record is flawless…but I hate comparing boxing greats so I won’t. All 3 were great boxers who added a huge amount to the sport. Let it be.
Joe will get murdered against prime hopkins or prime RJ…..he already gotten beat by past prime Hopkins in my opinion and yes he is a nobody and forever will be..